Fire education is an important fire management strategy which emphasizes fire safety, fire ecology and fuel treatments.
At Point Reyes National Seashore, fire education focuses on lessons learned from the Vision Fire, community wildlfire protection, and the park's prescribed fire program.
Hiking through the area that burned during the 1995 Vision Fire is one of the best ways to learn about fire at Point Reyes. "After the Vision Fire: An Educational Trailguide" (687 KB PDF) was developed to help you see the effects of the fire in the landscape. (Adobe® Acrobat Reader® may be needed to view PDF documents.)
There are also two films which you can request to see at Visitor Center:
"The Spark of Life: Fire are Point Reyes" (11 min) - includes live footage and interviews
"Fire Management" (6 min) - a Science Behind the Scenery presentation by the Pacific Coast Learning Center
Project Learning Tree offers workshops to train teachers how to use the Burning Issues curriculum, and provides a variety of other environmental education resources.
In 2007, Point Reyes National Seashore's Fire Education Specialist Jennifer Chapman interviewed Southern Marin Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner about the fire district's Defensible Space Evaluator Class. Fire Captain Gloeckner talks about the two-day workshop that taught people how to assess fire hazards around their home, and how this process can be used to determine priorities for a community overall.
Fire Education: Interview: Southern Marin Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner: Defensible Space Evaluator Class. 2007. Part 1 - Overview
In 2007, Point Reyes National Seashore's Fire Education Specialist Jennifer Chapman interviewed Southern Marin Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner about the Defensible Space Evaluator Class. This is the first of four of the interview's segments.
[Jennifer Chapman] This is Jennifer Chapman with the San Francisco Bay Area national parks. I'm talking with Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner from the Southern Marin Fire District about a training program he offers to local neighborhoods.
[Cary Gloeckner] What we're doing is the Defensible Space Evaluator Class. And that's something that Southern Marin Fire District came up with. It's, kind of, an offshoot of the Home Ignition Zone Workshop that's through Firewise Communities. And so, I take their program and then I add our things into it on top of that. And we're basically teaching people how to take care of themselves, to do their own defensible space, to take care of embers, and things like that, and everything around the house that they need to know to be, basically, wildfire safe, as much as possible, anyway.
[Chapman] So, how long is the program?
[Gloeckner] The program is two eight-hour days. And the second half...the last four hours of the second day, we go out, and we do actual on-site evaluations of either students' homes, or, for this one, we're going to be re-evaluating places where I have initially evaluated them and then the area has been treated by grant money to remove vegetation. I know what the original score was and so now we can hopefully get an updated new score.
[Chapman] So, you're giving people a way to score themselves.
[Gloeckner] We use the NFPA-1144 form. They call it the Hazard Assessment. So, you have wildfire hazards that, you know, to your home. And in that list, it's a three...three-page check off. If you're trained to use it, you can figure out how to evaluate your home.
So, at the end of the evaluation you have a numerical score that will fit into a category. So, it'll tell you it's either severe fire hazard, high, moderate, or low. And so, you'll have a number score and then a color and then that word association, too. So, people, kind of...they like that, they associate that kind of to the...to the grading system, so.... As soon as you tell them that they've, you know, they're in a high or an orange color and they've got, you know, 80 points, they really want to do something to take care of that.
And so, they can use that sheet, then, to look on...on the sheet and see, well, where did they get bad scores. Most times where they got the bad scores is where they have too much fuel in their defensible space zone. Or if they've got trees and limbs hanging on the roof. Or they've actually got something that they were, kind of, postponing. Maybe they were going to, uh, reside their home with noncombustible siding as opposed to the current wood shake shingles that they have on there.
Most often, there are certain areas that are related to defensible space and changing their fuel type. And the other really big one is building construction. And, so, those are the...the three big factors that people can easily, kind of, take charge of themselves. So, they can change the way their house is built. If they're gonna remodel, they can change windows, they can change siding, change their roof—that's a really big one. Um, the other thing they could do is they can change their overall fuel type in the area by installing a defensible space.
[Chapman] Well, since defensible space has a lot to do with the vegetation around the house, are there any plants that are especially hazardous that people should avoid?
[Gloeckner] There's a really big list of different things. Ones that I can...that are, sort of, my pet peeves that I've seen cause a lot of problems are not necessarily just for the...that...that home there. Are there a whole lot of different plants or trees in there that are gonna contribute to firebrands?
The biggest ones that I really worry about is, number one, the eucalyptus trees. There's plenty of photos and different stories I could tell you about that, um, that spread these fires far. The eucalyptus is notorious for having these acorns that will catch fire and get carried up in the convection column and then, you know, they get spread for a mile or more...mile to two miles. Um, so that's now dropping little fire brands over, let's say, all of Tam Valley, for example. So, that's a big concern for me.
The other one that...the big type of, uh, individual concern is, like, pine trees, right, somebody's right near their house. Uh, they're highly volatile. They're full of sap. Um, when that sap starts to run, they really start to ignite, and they stay ignited for quite sometime. They're hard to put out.
The other one that I would think of is probably the juniper and cypress type of things there. The juniper hedges and bushes, they're...they're really their chemical content, if you could probably have a plant to make, you know, a biofuel out of, that would probably be a perfect plant to, um, check into. It's got a lot of paraffins and wax. It's very pyrophytic, which means it burns like crazy when it's lit. Um, you can think of...I...I like to call those little junipers [unintelligible], you know, little gas balls right near your house. They're a fuel source that is highly ignitable, they're very readily available to burn in the summertime. And in the middle of them, if you ever cut them open, they're just chock full of dead material. Which means if your neighbor has a small fire and drops a couple embers down in there, now you've got a burning hedge running towards you house.
The big part about the class...we really go over what is and what isn't a fire hazard. And we dive into the misperceptions of how fire moves. Uh, specifically, every—and the news perpetuates this to no end—is that, well, it's this giant firestorm that's gonna burn my house down; there's nothing I can do. So, people have heard all these things, you know, that's it's...it's a firestorm, it just, you know, it just rages out of control and there's no stopping it. So, they built this thing into this giant monster that can't be stopped. So, a lot of people that have developed this attitude, "Well, if it's gonna be that, this big firestorm, there's nothing I can do about it." And that's...that's farthest from the truth. That's...there's plenty you can do.
So, in the class we go to extreme lengths to dispel all the myths about how fire moves. The bulk of what they're get... gonna get out of this is everybody that goes to the class will be able to walk away with the same information and know that we're not gonna ask people to clear-cut their properties; we're gonna ask them to do sensible things on their own. And...and, again, the last thing you want is the fire department or any other government agency coming to tell you exactly how or how you shouldn't do things in your yard.
What I'd like to do is give you the right information, and then you put it to use.
Fire Education: Interview: Southern Marin Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner: Defensible Space Evaluator Class. 2007. Part 2 - Priorities
In 2007, Point Reyes National Seashore's Fire Education Specialist Jennifer Chapman interviewed Southern Marin Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner about the Defensible Space Evaluator Class. This is the second of four of the interview's segments.
[Cary Gloeckner] If a homeowners group gets a grant, the biggest problem is people want to fight. And they want to fight for the money because they want to get stuff done in their area. And the first question they have is: will you tell us what's the worst area? So, I can then I can go through and I can rate every single parcel and give them a...a quantitative number that says, "This...this parcel is worse than that one." And then, I can go through there and I can also tell them why it is.
You know, I have this paper...I can look at a map, then, and have a GPS colored map, which we often do, and I can look at those areas and you'll start to see patterns develop in certain areas. And, so by that, then, we can then prioritize. And people...people look at that and say, "Well, the fire department's been out here, they've looked at it, they've evaluated it, and, their professional opinion, here's the worst area. And so, then, that also, in turn, helps with them writing future grants, because, they write a future grant, the, you know, whoever's looking at it can say, "Well, how do we know that our money's going to go to effect something and do a good job?"
Well, you can know that...so, the Marin Fire District is taking the time to put boots on the ground at every single parcel in that area. So, like Marin View, I went to 250 parcels and valued every single one. In Muir Meadows, it was 80. Um, so, every spot there our boots were on the ground. We've looked at it and evaluated it and then we can tell exactly what needs to be done.
And there's some level of confidence, I think, when the grant awarders are looking at that and they say, "Okay, well, here's the first year." And then, there's also then, because they're looking for a certain amount of money for this one area in this one year, they can also put in their "Hey, we've got another two or three or four areas that have been prioritized that are still high but not as high as this." So, that lends a lot of credibility to the...to the different homeowners' groups that are getting these grants.
[Jennifer Chapman] So, what you're saying is: some of the neighborhoods in your area got a grant and then they needed to go back and take a hard look at how they were gonna spend the money and really identify the highest hazard areas.
[Gloeckner] Yeah. Once you get a grant, if it's not well defined, everybody will squabble: "what makes this person more worthy of getting things done for free to protect them from fire?" Well, with this program, this class, people then can have confidence in that, "Oh, you know, my house is not so bad, actually. I thought it was really bad, but it's not as bad as I thought." And there are things I can do for a very little amount of money to make it a lot better. Whereas other people, they really, truly...their only option...they've done everything else that they could, but the things that are very dangerous to their home is...is high...high dollar activity work, like logging out eucalyptus trees out of a canyon right below their home.
[Chapman] So, are you targeting any more subdivisions than for...for doing this, uh, kind of, full neighborhood assessment process?
[Gloeckner] I've also neglected to tell you about Wolfpack Ridge. They have, maybe, 50 assessments that we had to do up there. We got all those done and then, now, they're, kind of, in the develop a plan on what to do.
[Chapman] Now, did they have a grant or they just wanted to...get an idea of prioritizing for themselves?
[Gloeckner] They...they don't have a grant, yet, but they have a lot of issues where they...they have a lot of Caltrans land that they're impacted by and they also have GGNRA that's on the other side of them. And they sort of sit on the top of the ridge between both spots. You know, before you try to tackle an agency--specifically a government agency--and try to tackle them and say, "Hey, we need you to do something about this problem," you need to state what the problem is. And if you can state what the problem is and show numbers of where the problem is, then you can get...have a better chance of getting some money to...to mitigate it.
[Chapman] So, is your evaluation process mostly within the first hundred feet from the structures?
[Gloeckner] The first hundred feet is the most important. But if it's on a big slope, I'll change that sometimes, you know, I'll look at overall. Then, when we look at...um...let's say we have...we evaluate the house individually on this hundred-foot defensible space area, some of that may be on other people's land, let's say it's in Muir Meadows, it's on...half of that 50 feet is on the GGNRA. So, we evaluate that as to...okay, we've have the hundred...hundred feet. But if there's something that's gonna be tremendously advantageous to...to remove beyond the hundred foot, let's say it's a giant grove of eucalyptus trees that are real...I mean, just really thick, right up on that hundred foot line, I mean, there...there's science to prove that as long as you have the 30 feet you're pretty good.
But, again, the problem becomes...it's...I have an issue with some of these downed logs because you get this big, heavy duff like that, it produces smoke for a very very long time. And it also then has an ember issue because...you know, let's say you have twenty fire engines out there and you have 50 acres that's gonna take a long time to reduce the likelihood that not one of those embers is going to land somewhere else in the subdivision and start a fire. So, in little areas like that, there's these pockets where we may wanna look outside that hundred-foot and say, "You know, it would be wise, probably, to go in there and do, maybe, a bit of thinning." I'm not necessarily take down the entire forest, but, you know, go through and do something that's comprehensive but logical.
Fire Education: Interview: Southern Marin Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner: Defensible Space Evaluator Class. 2007. Part 3 - Agenda
In 2007, Point Reyes National Seashore's Fire Education Specialist Jennifer Chapman interviewed Southern Marin Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner about the Defensible Space Evaluator Class. This is the third of four of the interview's segments.
[Jennifer Chapman] So, in the two days, what's, kind of, the basic agenda?
[Cary Gloeckner] In the first module of the very first day, we talked about the different myths as to why people don't do what they need to do, why people aren't here. And then we roll into, actually, fire behavior and physics and fire chemistry, so.... We talk about the fire triangle--the fuel, the heat, and the oxygen. And as we start to go through these things, you can start to see this...the lights popping on in the students' minds, you know, "Oh. Okay." And they start...they'll start to ask you questions like: "Well, is this more flammable than that?" And so, then, that'll logically rolls into the next chapter. We're talking about different fuel modules. And so, then, they get taught about, you know, um, slope and terrain and fuel, how it's arranged on the hill, and how, then, you can, maybe, derange it and put it in a different format, uh, or remove and replace type things. And so, that starts to go into the defensible space stuff.
And about the middle of the first day, we get into the Jack Cohen studies, which are basically the worst-case fire scenario you can come up with, you know, 60- to 80-foot flame lengths thirty feet away from a structure. And so, they set up these test modules. And that, then, gives them the idea after...with about 20 minutes of this film, "If my home can withstand, you know, the worst-case timber fire scenario, what is it, then, that are burning down all these houses?"
And so, that leads into the last, kind of, two modules which is how to mitigate all these firebrands, and then, what is a threat? You know, how far away are these things a threat? And so, then, that, kind of, gets into talking about a community level: "Alright. Where are the threats in our community?" And we go back to harping on the eucalyptus trees 'cause these things are...are...are probably our worst enemy around here, is that they're the...probably, the single biggest firebrand producer around.
Other than that, it's probably going to be large embers from homes that are burning down to the ground being swept up. And those are very heavy embers. They can get...you know, they can travel even, you know, the longest distance, spot out of the area and start new fires elsewhere.
[Chapman] So, embers and firebrands are the same thing?
[Gloeckner] Yeah.
[Chapman] Great.
[Gloeckner] Pre...pretty much interchang...I think "firebrands" is the more scientific term, but "embers" is what people, kind of, refer to, in...in layperson's terms.
[Chapman] Okay. So, you've done a workshop in Wolfback Ridge and, when you do it, it's two days. Are they two days in a row?
[Gloeckner] It's two eight-hour days and...and usually we'll set it up for one Saturday, like we did one last Saturday. Um, and then, we're doing one tomorrow--it'll be the second Saturday. So, it's two eight-hour days, and I know that's a lot of time to ask of people, but, really, the first...at the end of the first day, they're, like...they're...they're hungry for more. And we just...we, kind of, break at a...at a good spot where they want to come back. And by the end of the class, they're, like, "Oh, this isn't so bad. This is...it's doable." And we give you the tools to do it. And everybody comes out speaking the same language.
So, you can totally take the air out of the issue that's really common around here, and that's: "That tree blocks my view." You know, a lot of times when you boil it down, it's they call us to come out and look at something because, really, that tree that's on their neighbor's property isn't necessarily a fire hazard--it's blocking their view. But you'll find that those two people, now, if you take them to the class, which we did, and the guy on the other property said, "Well, I'll take the tree down. Do you wanna split the cost? We'll take it down then, it's blocking your view." Developed a lot of goodwill.
[Chapman] So, you're saying the second day is mostly going and doing evaluations.
[Gloeckner] It's four...it's four hours in the morning. We finish up whatever business that we have to tend to, show them how to use the form again, and, kind of, go over it one more time with them and...and understanding.... I have a lot of different slides that I put together, personally, that explains how a fire moves. So, that kind of occurs in the first half to, kind of, reinforce what we're gonna be looking at out there. And then after lunch, we come back, we meet at the first site, and we start doing these evaluations.
So, everybody will do an evaluation. And w...after we're done, we get together and, kind of, look at each other, "Okay, well, what score did you get?" Generally speaking, the worst-case scenario happens on the very first home. Somebody will be, you know, "This is the worst ever house and it's, you know, I'm gonna score this a hundred." And it's severe. And then, there's somebody, inevitably, that'll give him a forty-six, and they'll be low. Most everybody, then, will fall in the middle.
But by the second or third house that we do, they start to see the reasons why they were wrong in the first and the second ones and th...by the end of the day, uh, they're...everybody's within maybe eight to ten points of each other.
[Chapman] And so, at...how long does one assessment take?
[Gloeckner] I would say we spend, at each house, maybe 35 minutes. And that's for people that have never done it before.
Fire Education: Interview: Southern Marin Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner: Defensible Space Evaluator Class. 2007. Part 4 - Costs
In 2007, Point Reyes National Seashore's Fire Education Specialist Jennifer Chapman interviewed Southern Marin Fire Captain Cary Gloeckner about the Defensible Space Evaluator Class. This is the last of four of the interview's segments.
[Gloeckner] You know, one way or the other, you're gonna be paying for firefighters out here. But you can literally... the homeowner can make us more effective by taking care of all this stuff. If you take care of your defensible space, your yard, change your building construction, and do these things, then we can actually go back to the business of putting the fire out and keeping it smaller, instead of, you know, then going in...it's either going-and-put-the-fire-out-mode, or we're gonna go in a structure-protection-mode. If we have to go into that mode, then the fire is gonna get bigger. And as the fire gets bigger, it's just gonna start taking up more and more resources and you're gonna get to that...to that point where it's going to overwhelm the system. And that point is called "conflagration." And there's not much that we can do about that except wait for the weather to change.
[Chapman] Well, so, I'm wondering: is there also a cost for the class? I've seen other workshops like this offered for 200 or even 300 dollars a person.
[Gloeckner] We're doing the class for free. The chief, Irving, has been kind enough to give us a pretty good budget for vegetation management. I think if I can train a thousand people for five hundred dollars, that's...that's more than we would ever do with giving them, you know, $10,000 for a chipper for five days. Yeah, so, it just goes a lot farther.
[Chapman] So, what are the costs of the class? Do you have some materials you're giving people?
[Gloeckner] They call...I basically take with the budget that...that I've been given, I take and I buy the materials from Firewise Communities--and it's the home ignitions own workshop stuff. So, our costs...the department's, you know, its actual cost to the...to the fire district is: the materials--the books themselves, which are, maybe like, $22 for a student workbook--they're pretty...pretty cheap; um, cost of, like, renting the place to go teach the class.
Now, I'm not a person that personally believes in the government giving away a lot of free stuff, but I think this kind of free stuff is something that's gonna pay us back. It's gonna allow me to do my job. It's gonna make me more effective at being a fire captain. It's going to make the whole engine company more effective at saving ten homes instead of maybe just one.
415-464-5100
This number will initially be answered by an automated attendant, from which one can opt to access a name directory, listen to recorded information about the park (e.g., directions to the park; visitor center hours of operation; fire danger information; wildlife updates; ranger-led programs; seasonal events; etc.), or speak with a ranger. Please note that if you are calling between 4:30 pm and 10 am, park staff may not be available to answer your call.
