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Darlene Collins Oral History Interview
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INTERVIEW WITH
DARLENE COLLINS
September 26, 2010 - Danica Moore, Interviewer
DANICA: This is Danica Moore. The date is September 26, 2010. I’m in Chicago Illinois at the home of Darlene Collins. Can you state your name for the recorder please?
DARLENE: Darlene Collins.
DANICA: And your date of birth?
DARLENE: April 23, 1946.
DANICA: And your age.
DARLENE: 64.
DANICA: And your relations in Nicodemus?
DARLENE: Clematine Vaughn, Charles Vaughn on my maternal side and on my fraternal side with be Willford Moore, his mother and father was Sarah and Nathaniel Moore.
DANICA: And the purpose of this research study is to increase the understanding and appreciation of the people, places, organizations that contributed to the creation and continuing existence of Nicodemus. And for participating in this, I want to ask your approval. So first of all, do you approve that we use your name in this research study?
DARLENE: Yes.
DANICA: And sign on that line. Secondly is it OK if we record this on audio which we have already started the recording.
DARLENE: Yes.
DANICA: Please initial that one. And if its ok for any videos and photos to be taken, that would be the next two lines. Alright. We’re all set. So you are from the Clematine Vaughn lineage. Can you name, um, your spouse and children?
DARLENE: Yes, my spouse was Vernon Evert Collins. I have a daughter, Latia Collins Dunn, Melanie Elaine Rodena Collins, Julian Jeanetta Collins and Shawntelle Dudley who is my niece but I raised her as my daughter. That’s my sister Odella Maria Moore’s child.
DANICA: When was the date of your marriage to your husband?
DARLENE: August 31, 1965.
DANICA: Where were you married?
DARLENE: Lawrence Kansas.
DANICA: When did your husband pass away?
DARLENE: April of 2000.
DANICA: Where is he buried?
DARLENE: In Chicago, Evergreen Park Cemetery 87th and Mackensie.
DANICA: And your children have children of their own correct?
DARLENE: I have one daughter her name is Julian Collins and she has a son and his name is Vernon Raphael Desaphono Wilkes.
DANICA: And his birth?
DARLENE: May 3, 2010.
DANICA: Any other grandchildren?
DARLENE: My niece who I raised as a daughter, has a son, Justin Burgess, age 11. Jalon Burgess, age 6 and Illa Burgess, 6 months and her husband’s name is Alonzo Burgess.
DANICA: Do all your grandchildren live in Chicago?
DARLENE: Yes, they all reside in Chicago.
DANICA: Who in your family grew up in Nicodemus?
DARLENE: None of us grew up in Nicodemus. Idis, being the second oldest in the family, left Nicodemus, I’m told, at age 11 months; but we would go back every year during summer break.
DANICA: So were you born in Nicodemus?
DARLENE: Yes I was born in Nicodemus Kansas.
DANICA: So you left before you did any schooling there?
DARLENE: Correct.
DANICA: And when you left, you went to?
DARLENE: Lincoln, Nebraska.
DANICA: So no one else in your family grew up in Nicodemus?
DARLENE: No, I had an older brother who is deceased now, he was born in Nicodemus. But none of my siblings were raised in Nicodemus proper.
DANICA: What families are you related to in Nicodemus?
DARLENE: Well, related to start out with my great great grandmother, Samuels, Napue, this is on my mother’s side of the family. Samuels, Napue, Craig, Sadlers, Alexander, Garlands, Reece and Reed. And on my father’s side would be Moore, Griffies, Sayers, those are the only ones I know.
DANICA: Do you know the names of your great grand parents or great great grand parents?
DARLENE: On mother’s side I do. I don’t know that much on my father’s side. But on mother’s side my grandmother was Clematine Napue Vaughn who was married to Charles Vaughn and then my great grand mother was Margaret Samuels Napue Thomas, and my great great great was Grandfather John Samuels and Leanna Samuels and I’m not aware of what her maiden name was.
DANICA: And were any of your great great grand parents born in Nicodemus?:
DARLENE: Yes, ah, my grandmother Clematine Vaughn, I don’t know if you would say she was born in Nicodemus. She was actually born in Wildhorse Township which is right outside of Bogue and later on in life, she moved to Nicodemus; but they are all within a five mile radius of each other. My grandfather, Charles Vaughn, was not born in Nicodemus. He came there as a young man and I believe my great great grandmother and great great great grandmother I don’t think any of them were born there; but they moved there as adults out of Kentucky and Arkansas, excuse me, Kentucky and Tennessee.
DANICA: And are any of these relatives living today?
DARLENE: None from the first, second or third generation. Fourth generation is living and fifth and sixth and seventh.
DANICA: And where are their burials?
DARLENE: Their burials are in Nicodemus, Kansas, Mt Olive cemetery and the Nicodemus cemetery and also the Samuels cemetery south of Bogue Kansas.
DANICA: Who is the oldest relative that you know of in your family in Nicodemus?
DARLENE: That would be my Aunt Leanna Vaughn McMurry and she resides in Pasadena, California and I believe she is 87 years old and her birthday is April 29. Yes she is 87 cause the second oldest would be Ruth Finney and she is 84.
DANICA: Do you know any stories about your elder relatives?
DARLENE: Uh, well yeah, I’ve heard many of them. Little things that they told even like when they were children going to school and they always talked about the dust storm and how they had to walk by the side of the fence to guide them to, you know, the school and back and forth and they continually talked about how they had to have gunney sacks wrapped around their feet to keep their shoes and things dry from the snow. My grandfather, Charles Vaughn, was I guess you would call him a shoe cobbler, he made their shoes for them. And then they told me a story about how they had decorated the church on Christmas and someone decided to decorate the church with candles and unfortunately about an hour later the whole Christmas tree burned down and just a lot of little cute stories I’ve heard, you know. But those are some that I remember and I’ve been told stories about how several Nicodemians used to make boot leg whiskey and where they used to store it and things of that nature.
DANICA: Where did your family reside in Nicodemus when you were born?
DARLENE: At the Clematine Vaughn homestead which is still standing now. That’s where all of my grandmother’s ten children were born.
DANICA: Can you describe the location of where that is?
DARLENE: Oh, I’m not too good with directions and what have you. But if you know where the Donald Moore residence is, it’s off to the left of there.
DANICA: And does your family still own that land?
DARLENE: Yes they own the land. They own the land where the house resided on and they also have land right outside Nicodemus.
DANICA: And the house is still there as well?
DARLENE: Yes, the house is still standing and they’re in negioations or the process of trying to secure funds to restore it to its natural habit.
DANICA: Did your family have any type of livestock?
DARLENE: What I was told was that they really didn’t raise livestock. I think what they had was mainly for their own food. They had a pet cow. They had a couple of hogs. And they did raise chickens; but from what I’m told, mostly everyone went to my Father’s mother, Sarah Moore, she was known for raising chickens and it seemed like a lot of people in that area would go to her because she had what they called laying hens and everyone would go and purchase eggs from Grandma Sarah Moore.
DANICA: Do you know of anyone in your family that’s known for anything – a claim to fame – such as sports athletics in your family or culinary schools, religion?
DARLENE: Well I know my Uncle John Vaughn, who just recently passed in February of this year, he was very good in sports – baseball as a matter of fact. And that was another story I was always told. They said in another time or different time and era that they were quite sure that he would have became a professional baseball player and I know he played on the team in Nicodemus and he also played within the US military over in France and the government contracted him to go around all the little areas and it was the Army vs the locals over in Europe and he did play I guess you would say semi-professional baseball while he was in the US Army. Then he later went to Lincoln Nebraska and played on several local teams and his little nickname was “Jackie Robinson’ but in reference to him becoming a professional baseball player that didn’t happen. And I think because of the era he grew up in it was virtually impossible for that to happen.
DANICA: Who’s one of the relatives…..
DARLENE: Oh, I don’t know if it means anything he was grand deputy exalt ruler of the Midwest region for the Elks and that was a very prestigious position to hold and part of his responsibility was traveling around the country mentoring to the rest of the members in that organization and that kept him very busy for years.
DANICA: So what relatives are you closest to in Nicodemus?
DARLENE: Well, with the exception of my siblings, uh, it would be my mother’s aunts which would be Ruth Finney, and Leanna McMurray. On my father’s side it would be Bertha Moore Carter and Florence Moore Howard and my uncle Donald Moore and my aunt Teeny Moore and several of my first cousins down there. And I have first cousins out in California the Williams side of the family and I would say I’m close, actually I see all of my mother’s side of the family on a regular basis at least two or three times a year. And on my father’s side, I see some of them at least once a year. So I would say predominately I’m not estranged from my mother’s or father’s side of the family. And then there’s cousins that are in Nicodemus and I see them when I go down there.
DANICA: How often do you make it to Nicodemus?
DARLENE: I used to go every year for maybe about 25 years then in the last 10 to 12 years, I’ve been down there maybe every two to three years. And the last time I was there, I attended Homecoming festivities in 2009.
DANICA: So when you were going down every year was that just for homecoming or did you find other trips to squeeze in besides Homecoming.
DARLENE: No we would definitely go just for Homecoming.
DANICA: Tell me about your Emancipation Homecoming experiences. When is the first Homecoming you remember going to?
DARLENE: Well I really couldn’t tell you age wise but probably when I was around five years old. And the reason I say that is at that time Homecoming used to have carnivals and they would have them adjacent to the town hall and I just remember my uncles going up there hitting the bottles and you were winning little stuffed animals and little pink piggy banks and things of that nature. So I would say I was around five years old I would believe that was my first indication or remembrance of homecoming. And to me it was just like a big picnic, a lot of fun and just meeting all kinds of people and running around chasing frogs, riding on the back of cows and eating.
DANICA: So do you remember a particular Homecoming and memories that you will always remember that had a major impact on you?
DARLENE: I believe it was in 19 it was in the 70s and we had held the 85th birthday for my grandmother Clematine Vaughn in Nicodemus, Kansas right around the same time as Homecoming and that was pretty special because it seemed like that year just about every one of my grandmother’s siblings and their children were all down there and attended the function. So, that’s what I remember. I think that was one of my most memorable Homecomings and one of the other ones was – it wasn’t one in particular but it was always with my grandfather on my father’s side, Nathaniel Moore, because we spent a lot of time together under the tree talking and playing dominoes so I can’t say it was a specific year, but that was something I looked forward to every year that I would go down there.
DANICA: You talked about how there was a big carnival, were you ever at any homecomings when they were located at Scruggs Grove?
DARLENE: No, that was before my time. Because I always heard about those and I can’t tell you when they discontinued those; but they weren’t within my lifetime, it was just a memory of what it used to be. Now, I take that back, because I seemed like I went down into the grove as a child but I don’t remember too much about it. All I remember was going through a bunch of corn fields and I think at that particular time they had a softball game going on down there. I don’t remember anything in reference to food or anything like that. Might have been, but I don’t remember that. I do remember them taking us into this field and telling us this was where we used to have our homecoming functions. But to my recollection I’ve never been in the grove for a homecoming function.
DANICA: So you talked about the music and some of the festivities that came with Homecoming in the early phases of it, what were some of the food vendors that remember Homecoming being known for?
DARLENE: When I was a child, they really didn’t have food vendors. It was left up to the locals and normally at that time, you had someone within your family that resided in Nicodemus preferably most of them were your grandparents and what they would do was always have food at their house. But then on Sunday after church, all of them volunteered and they had a church dinner for all the folks that had come down during Homecoming and they used to go to the church and have that. But they weren’t any individual vendors at all when I was a child. It was just done within the homes. But I do know that any home you went to they always offered you food or they were always giving us lemonade, homemade ice cream, cake and cookies and I had an aunt, Aunt Teeney, she used to, in this day and age you call it ‘hook me up’, she always made cookies for me and I’ll always remember that because I had them while I was down there and when I left going back to Topeka, Kansas, she would always have me a big coffee can full of cookies so that was something I looked forward to and it got so good, everyone else was trying to get a can of cookies, also. But it was really was just for me. And what I do remember about Homecoming as a child, so many came to the dance. The children were not allowed in there. Young people could not go in there it was just for adults only. And we used to go on the outside and I don’t know if we had crates and we used to stand on back of everybody’s shoulder we would try to look in to see what was going on and it was really funny because it was dark in there and we really didn’t know what was going on we just heard the music and we used to always say, ‘boy when I get grown I’m going to be able to go inside.’ But that was something that the children really weren’t allowed in there for the dance and when I did become grown and went inside they were letting everybody in from 5 to whatever. So, it was a totally different atmosphere; but it seemed very exciting as a child and something to look forward to because we weren’t allowed to do that.
DANICA: Where were the dances held?
DARLENE: They were in the town hall.
DANICA: What are some of the things you as a child used to always do to prepare yourself for Homecoming?
DARLENE: Well, there really wasn’t that much we had to do. No more than make sure we had our summer clothes ready and I remember my mother used to make us take a toothbrush and scrub our tennis shoes and have everything clean and ah we made sure that we had a lunch for that travel and back then they didn’t have air conditioners in the car so we never traveled during the day. We always traveled late at night and it was either my Uncle Charles, Uncle John, or Uncle Norval that used to drive us back to Nicodemus. But that was the only preparation that I as a child had to worry about just to make sure that we had our clothes together or whatever it was that we wanted to take with us. We normally spent every summer down there at my grandmother’s house. But other than that that was just a normal preparation I imagine a child would have to do.
DANICA: Can you talk a little bit about the changes in Homecoming over time, things that have changed and continue to change the more?
DARLENE: Well, the most significant change is that attendance is down tremendously. I really couldn’t tell you as a child how many people did attend. I can only say its much more than what I have been seeing in the last 15 to 20 years and there used to be so many people coming back to Nicodemus over that Friday, Saturday and Sunday that I just remember the streets being crowded and there was always someone walking up and down the street and back then a lot of the people came and they didn’t have anywhere to stay and they literally slept in their cars. And I can remember that because they used to park in front of the hall and I guess after the party or whatever they would just go get in their car and go to sleep. Now I’m quite sure that a lot of that had to do with the fact that back then Blacks were not allowed to stay in the hotels they had in that surrounding area. But that’s the biggest change I’ve seen. The attendance has decreased significantly over the years and I don’t know if it’s because past generations have passed on and the other generations are not aware or have not been informed; but that’s what I’ve noticed most of all. But in reference to the activities it’s really about the same. They would always have a picnic or a place for you to eat. They would have church services and they would have a dance. And I believe those things have been going on since I can remember as a child. What I have noticed is that they seem a little less organized than what they were before. And I don’t know if it’s because of the amount of residents that are left there and their age may have a significant factor on that. I have noticed that in recent years that it’s been more vendor activity where people were selling t-shirts, hats or what have you and as a child I don’t remember any of that. We never had that type of setup and we never had people selling food and you know things of that nature. Mostly everything we ate was from either one of our generation’s home or some family member or some person in Nicodemus. But that’s it – the attendance has gone down tremendously.
DANICA: Thinking of future Homecomings, have you ever been on the Homecoming Committee?
DARLENE: No, I never have. I’m not making excuses. I don’t really know how you go about that. I don’t know if that is something the committee solicits descendants or people from Nicodemus. I really don’t know how that works. But no one has ever come to me and asked me to participate in Homecoming activities. I take that back. Only one time they had a fashion show and they wanted me to model something in the fashion show.
DANICA: Is there anything you would like to see return back to the Homecoming from older days or what’s some other things you would like to see happen during Homecoming?
DARLENE: Well, I’d like to see more activities for the children, more structured and organized activities, planned activities where there would be… it would be nice if during the Homecoming period that there could be some kind type of journal or periodical that would come out to the descendants letting you know what the weekend activities are giving you maybe an opportunity to sign in to those things prior to getting down there. Just really knowing what’s going on even down to the point of what is your social activity, what’s the name of the band, or if there is going to be a band or is there going to be music, where is it at. Things of that nature. Just seems like, and I may be wrong, most people that go to Nicodemus they find out what’s going on through word of mouth and a lot of times – times are incorrect or they may change them. So I think if that could be a little more organized maybe people could plan their schedule better because for years I didn’t know they had anything going on on a Friday and I never tried to come down for Friday. I just assumed Saturday and Sunday were the Homecoming activities. But I’ve seen found out that they do have things that are happening on Friday.
Description
Oral History Interview with Darlene Collins from 2010.
Credit
Danica Moore Interviewer
Date Created
09/26/2010
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