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Bart Archimedes and Albert Patane
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Adena:
Okay, this is an interview with Bart and Albert, the two guys who found John Paul Scott [imprisoned for bank robbery and was the only known escapee from Alcatraz].
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:00:13] last name?
Adena:
Last names, yeah. I want you to introduce yourself.
Bart:
I'm Bart Archimedes.
Adena:
Bart Archimedes.
Albert:
I'm Albert Patane.
Adena:
And, they have some friends here too. I'll let you tell them who... [crosstalk 00:00:26]-
Albert:
[Crosstalk 00:00:24]-
Adena:
Nicky [inaudible 00:00:27]. Oh.
Albert:
[Inaudible 00:00:31] wrong end.
[00:00:30]
Adena:
Yeah, and I know friends are out here, okay? And this is Adena Boxer a seasonal technician out at Alcatraz. It's August 24th, 1977.
Okay, you guys found John Paul Scott [imprisoned for bank robbery and was the only known escapee from Alcatraz]. You don't remember what the day was, or anything?
Bart:
No, [crosstalk 00:00:48]. [Laughter]. It was just nighttime, we were about 15 years old.
Adena:
It was nighttime. You were 15 years old?
Bart:
Yeah.
Adena:
What were you guys, Where were you?
Bart:
[00:01:00]
We were underneath the Golden Gate Bridge, I guess it's called Fort Point [a seacoast fortification at the Golden Gate Bridge’s southern side]. It was sort of a popular place for youths of that age to park and drink beer at night, and-
Adena:
Oh, really?
Bart:
-Hold hands and things like that, so that's what we were doing, and that's not us two together. [Laughter].
Albert:
We had a couple friends with us.
Bart:
Yeah, yeah.
Adena:
You were a car then, at the time?
Albert:
Yeah, yeah.
Bart:
And we heard a screaming sound, so he and I got out, and looked around, and he noticed there was a body down on the rocks, and he was just moaning or something.
And, we creeped near the area...
Adena:
Has she checked it? Okay, you heard a screaming sound on the rocks?
Bart:
Well, someone started moaning or something, it was like, "Agh," something like that. So, we got out of the car, and we looked, and being familiar with the area, we realized it was a body and that he couldn't have just walked down there, because it's very impressive, very high... it's a steep, it's high, steep-
Albert:
Gorge.
Adena:
[Crosstalk 00:01:59].
Bart:
Yeah. Ridge. Sure, and there's rocks on the bottom. So, we just figured that the guy was drunk and fell off here or something like that. So, we went and... I don't know, we phoned somebody like an ambulance, or police, or somebody. And as soon as we did it a lot of things happened real quick.
Albert:
We stopped at the MP station.
Adena:
You what?
Bart:
Yeah, I [crosstalk 00:02:16]-
Albert:
We stopped at the MP station and said, "There's a guy down there."
Bart:
And-
Albert:
We're on our way out, and he said hold it right there, and call the warden of Alcatraz.
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:02:22]-
Adena:
[Crosstalk 00:02:22]-
Albert:
[Crosstalk 00:02:22] and he knew.
Bart:
Evidently the warden had been out that someone had escaped or something and they were on the news. So they started closing all the gates, and we could tell something was going on, that this was evidently somebody that-
Albert:
Yeah, especially when you call the warden of Alcatraz. [Laughter].
Bart:
Right, that's what happened. That's what happened.
Adena:
You were standing right there when he called the warden?
Bart:
Right.
Albert:
Yeah, he wouldn't let us go. We were like, "Ah, geez, man, what did we do?"
Bart:
So at that time, we realized that this guy was evidently [inaudible 00:02:48] running [crosstalk 00:02:48]-
Adena:
And a convict. What did you think then?
Albert:
Well, we felt bad about turning him in.
Adena:
Oh, you did?
Bart:
Yeah.
Albert:
Sure, if he would've said something. We tried to talk to him.
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:02:57].
Adena:
You did try and-
Albert:
And it was [crosstalk 00:02:57]-
[00:03:00]
Bart:
And we were standing above, we were shouting out like, "Hey, what are you doing?"
Albert:
Do you need an umbrella. He's stark naked, sitting on the rocks.
Adena:
He was stark naked?
Albert:
And it was raining, he didn't have-
Adena:
He didn't have anything on at all?
Albert:
He had surgical gloves-
Bart:
Around his-
Albert:
inflated around his waist for water wings.
Bart:
And so we later found out that other [inaudible 00:03:16] to get out of, because it's so [inaudible 00:03:16] and that's what they had, and there were two of them, and this one apparently made it. I don't think he was a very good swimmer because [inaudible 00:03:23] is visible [inaudible 00:03:25], and-
[00:03:30]
Albert:
No, not the time, he almost missed.
Bart:
Well, that's what I mean, [inaudible 00:03:31] he just went all the way out. So, that meant, evidently, he was suffering from that exposure, just was very cold and very tired, and just crying and holding something [crosstalk 00:03:41]-
Adena:
So, when you tried to talk to him, he never [crosstalk 00:03:42]?
Albert:
He just turned around and looked up.
Bart:
He looked up at us.
Albert:
He seemed to be glowing.
Bart:
Yeah.
Albert:
In the moonlight his body was so white; it really stood out. He turned around, and looked at us, but he wouldn't say anything, we tried to get him to talk.
Bart:
Yeah, he [inaudible 00:03:51].
Albert:
Wasn't that far away from us, it was a 10 foot ledge, and he was right down below us.
Adena:
Did you try to reach him?
Albert:
I wanted to go down, Bart didn't.
Bart:
He couldn't have gotten down, [inaudible 00:03:51] the side of the ledge, and it's all slippery going down. Unless you had some sort of rope device or something like that.
Adena:
So, he didn't have anything on, he just had the surgical gloves around him?
Bart:
Yes, around his waist.
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
Okay, then the military police held you, and they called the warden. Did the warden come out?
Bart:
A lot of people seemed to be coming up, they got down there with hooks and ladders and things like that, and it was a lot of personnel around. Mostly military there, but I didn't see him.
Albert:
They made us put out a statement.
Bart:
Yeah. And at that time, so we knew something was going on, and at the same time, the local radio stations, they had a thing about this news tip, so we called it in.
Albert:
Yeah we got a hundred dollar savings bond.
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:03:51], so we got a hundred dollar savings bond.
Adena:
You got a hundred saving bond from the radio station?
Albert:
They were a news tip [inaudible 00:03:51].
Bart:
That's what it is and then-
Adena:
Okay.
Albert:
In fact, as soon as we called it, I was talking too fast and Bart got on the phone. And I went in the car, and soon as he finished telling him, we flashed on the radio and heard Bart’s voice on the car radio.
Bart:
I said something like, "He shone like a little star” or something like that. [Laughter].
Albert:
Yeah!
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:05:02] and because of the moonlight and the rain and I guess his body was so white, I guess the temperature going down or something, and [inaudible 00:05:09], and so I kind of [inaudible] a little bit-
Adena:
Yeah.
Bart:
-To say something, I said, "He shone like a star," So I think [inaudible 00:05:17].
Adena:
Did you know at that time you were going to get a hundred dollars for[crosstalk 00:05:24]?
Albert:
Well, we snitched.
Bart:
We [inaudible 00:05:25].
Albert:
A lot.
Adena:
Wait, but then they rescued...
Bart:
They pulled him up.
Adena:
Yeah.
Bart:
Yeah.
Adena:
And the police carried that out, too? Or did they have a rescue team?
Albert:
Oh, MPs, a lot of military police.
Bart:
It was [crosstalk 00:05:38].
Albert:
They had a fire truck, and a ladder and a guy went down and helped him up.
Adena:
Did they do first aid right there? [inaudible 00:05:43]?
Albert:
They took him right to Letterman General Hospital.
Bart:
Yeah, they just put him in a hospital type of bed
Albert:
The paper says he would've died if we didn't find him.
Bart:
They said he was [inaudible 00:05:52] badly. Said [inaudible 00:05:54]-
Albert:
The next day he was fully recovered, and he got a standing ovation when he went back to Alcatraz.
Bart:
And the other person that went with him, he just made it out to Little Alcatraz
Albert:
It's called Little Alcatraz, the rock right off of.
Bart:
He was just sitting there, the same thing. Nothing on but the surgical glove.
Adena:
Yeah, I wonder why Scott took all his clothes off. I know it probably weighed him down, but the freezing water.
Bart:
I know.
Adena:
So, yeah.
Bart:
That was just the way they had planned it.
[Adena:
They didn't fall off while he was swimming or anything like that, you don't think?
Bart:
He could've maybe taken them off. I think [inaudible 00:06:32] and things like that, they had it pretty well planned, and they thought that was the best thing to do, and they needed something floating in the water or something like that.
Albert:
Yeah, I think clothes would get in the way.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:06:37]-
Albert:
[Inaudible 00:06:37] miss, you're going to get to Fort Point it was in the Farallon’s
Adena:
Right. Did you ever hear anything from the prison? Did they ever send a letter or anything?
Bart:
No. Nothing.
Adena:
Nothing?
Bart:
Nothing.
Albert:
Yeah.
Bart:
[00:07:00]
[Inaudible 00:06:54] high school, and we had a lot of friends back junior high, which was just before high school and grammar school, but in the end and they had the parents that were priors on the island and we were pretty friendly with them, and they were saying that if we would've waited a couple days [inaudible 00:07:09]. Stuff like that.
Adena:
[Crosstalk 00:07:01]-
Albert:
We would've helped him. Definitely we would've helped him. He was scared.
Bart:
But there was never any [crosstalk 00:07:06]-
Albert:
Because we were criminals at the time. [Laughter].
Bart:
It's kind of ironic, about two months later, I was-
Albert:
Yeah, he was in the slammer.
Bart:
Yeah, I was in [inaudible 00:07:36] for eight or nine months.
Adena:
Oh.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:07:36] long time now.
Adena:
Did all your friends hear about-
Albert:
Oh, they cared about [inaudible 00:07:37].
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:07:37], yeah.
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:07:39]?
Albert:
Still do. Still.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:07:42] hear about it.
Adena:
But there was no way you could've known, right?
Albert:
Right, yeah.
Bart:
No, like I say, we just assumed that [inaudible 00:07:44], we didn't know [inaudible 00:07:44].
Albert:
I think we might have said, maybe escaping Alcatraz. Said, "Nah, that's ridiculous," because it's just so far away.
Bart:
It's not like we were heard, then maybe it would trigger [inaudible 00:07:59] but we didn't hear anything [inaudible 00:08:01]. I sometimes like when there was an escape from San Quentin, hear about it or something like that.
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:08:04]?
Bart:
Sure.
Adena:
Did you split the hundred dollars with the girls you were with?
Albert:
No, we gave them nothing. [Laughter].
Bart:
They were a little too concerned, so I guess it was [inaudible 00:08:12] they were a little concerned [inaudible 00:08:18].
Albert:
One guy got deported that was with us.
Bart:
So we just [inaudible 00:08:20] cash [inaudible 00:08:20] a savings bond [inaudible 00:08:20]. You have to wait seven years for it to mature, or something, so we just cashed to spend [inaudible 00:08:22], so we got about $35 each. Didn't say anything to anybody. It was at that point, [inaudible 00:08:33] expecting a fair share.
Adena:
How many people do you think were there at the time... You guys were the actual ones that went down and heard him [crosstalk 00:08:43]-
Bart:
Yeah, we didn't [crosstalk 00:08:45].
Albert:
Well, we got out of the car, but there were two other guys and three chicks.
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:08:48]-
Adena:
You were all in the same car?
Bart:
Oh, yeah.
Albert:
Yeah.
Bart:
We were [inaudible 00:08:48], that's why we had to get down.
Adena:
I was going to say, your version of the story you were about to say, you wanted to say it again?
Bart:
Yeah.
Albert:
Sounds [crosstalk 00:09:03].
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:09:03].
Albert:
Except it wasn't a screaming sound. We thought it was a seal. Sort of a barking noise. We're not even sure if he made that noise. Well, I guess he had to.
Bart:
Yeah, because when we're looking up, and we were standing right above him, he was looking up, he was making some kind of groans.
Albert:
Yeah.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:09:17]. And we saw the activity [inaudible 00:09:19] around [inaudible 00:09:21]. After telling the police, we sort of thought he was escaped from a mental hospital.
Albert:
Yeah.
Bart:
Somebody had one [crosstalk 00:09:29].
Albert:
They had one, yeah.
[00:09:30]
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:09:30] be a surgical gloves from [inaudible 00:09:33]?
Bart:
We just sort of kept at a distance, and so I don't know.
Adena:
Who did you file a report with, the military police?
Bart:
Yeah.
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
I assume they made copies of that [inaudible 00:09:43].
Albert:
Sure.
Bart:
Yeah.
Albert:
I’ve gotta get a friend of mine to get me the news clip, because we were on several channels.
Adena:
Yeah, I was going to ask you, did you save any newspaper clippings from the newspapers [inaudible 00:09:53]?
Albert:
I didn't.
Bart:
[00:10:00]
I did, but I don't know what [inaudible 00:09:56] that there wasn't anything about us, I just remember they gave their narration of how these people [inaudible 00:10:06], the message they used to get out of that prison, [inaudible 00:10:08] like a kind of cleanser that acts like a [inaudible 00:10:17].
Adena:
It would have to be a [inaudible 00:10:18] or something like that?
Bart:
[00:10:30]
Yeah, something like that to cut bars, and then the rest of it would be a [inaudible 00:10:22] heating and air conditioning [inaudible 00:10:23] or something like that. But, that was, more or less, all the papers said, and I don't remember that much about it. But, I certainly don't remember cutting equipments. [Inaudible 00:10:32] channels, channel five, channel seven, so they all interviewed us, and some [inaudible 00:10:35] and asked our side of the story.
Albert:
Roger [inaudible 00:10:40].
Bart:
Yeah, that was him. [Crosstalk 00:10:40]-
Albert:
What a jerk. Picked the wrong file. [Laughter].
Adena:
You were both 15 at the time?
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
So what year did you finally cash your savings fund?
Albert:
As soon as we got it.
Adena:
Oh, you got it.
Albert:
The day.
Bart:
The day. Didn't waste an hour. We had to go to the jury, and then...
Adena:
What time of day again now was it?
[00:11:00]
Albert:
It was at night.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:11:08].
Adena:
I mean, night. What time was it?
Bart:
9:00, 10:00, 11:00.
Albert:
Yeah about 10:00.
Adena:
Do you know what time he [inaudible 00:11:08] what time he [inaudible 00:11:08], how long he'd been there?
Albert:
He had to have been in the water four hours.
Adena:
Yeah.
Bart:
Yeah. [Inaudible 00:11:10] severeness, and, of course they found the other guy instantly, right away.
Albert:
That's probably why that as soon as they found him, they probably ordered the military police, that's why he had called the warden. Because he knew as soon as we walked in and just said, "There's a guy on the rocks," [inaudible 00:11:26] "Hold it right there," and got right on the phone.
Bart:
Yeah. And then policeman said something was [inaudible 00:11:28] something [inaudible 00:11:28] that are any [inaudible 00:11:28] or something else.
Adena:
Well, I can imagine that nobody found the Coast Guard, you're never going to [inaudible 00:11:28]-
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:11:28].
Albert:
Send in the police [crosstalk 00:11:28] fire truck.
Adena:
How long did you get to stay out here during the [inaudible 00:11:28] the military police?
Albert:
It's an hour, 45 minutes.
Bart:
Yeah. [Inaudible 00:11:32].
[00:11:30]
Adena:
What do you remember most about the whole thing?
Albert:
Just the news reporters coming over in the morning, I thought that was fun.
Bart:
Just the-
[00:12:00]
Albert:
And going out there.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:12:02].
Albert:
You just stayed at my house that night.
Bart:
Yeah, all of the television stations coming [inaudible 00:12:09] ringing the doorbells, and then outside there were camera crews.
Adena:
What did your parents think of all this?
Albert:
Thought it was pretty funny.
Adena:
They thought it was funny? Were they worried that you found an escaped convict on [inaudible 00:12:22]?
Bart:
No.
Albert:
No.
Bart:
I guess everyone was just humored by the [crosstalk 00:12:25]-
Albert:
What was he originally arrested for? I forgot. Bank robbery?
Adena:
John Paul Scott [imprisoned for bank robbery and was the only known escapee from Alcatraz]? Yeah, I think it was bank robbery.
Albert:
Oh, I thought it was. Wasn't sure.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:12:31] mentioned you, that's [inaudible 00:12:35], start reminding that, and in the paper [inaudible 00:12:38].
[00:12:30]
Adena:
No, because on everything that everybody's correct on, they talked about [inaudible 00:12:52]. And then somebody finally told us the day [inaudible 00:12:52].
Albert:
[00:13:00]
I was there, and the girlfriend I was with kept going, "Tell them, tell them," Of course, you're there in front of the crowds telling the story, I don't want to tell it [inaudible 00:13:02].
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:13:02] something that was going, he never heard anything [inaudible 00:13:04] Alcatraz prison, and that was her name. Our name just going to notify someone about his body [inaudible 00:13:20] we may get immunity on [inaudible 00:13:20] and that was it. And, man. [Inaudible 00:13:25] even Alcatraz-
Adena:
Was a National Guard?
[00:13:30]
Bart:
Was a National Guard [inaudible 00:13:29] and last time I think I heard something about it, it was [inaudible 00:13:47].
Adena:
Yeah. ‘59 to [Inaudible 00:13:48].
Bart:
So, that's a [inaudible 00:13:48].
Adena:
So you guys have been friends forever?
Bart:
Yeah, no it's a while. It's [crosstalk 00:13:48]-
Albert:
Yeah, yeah.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:13:48].
Albert:
Just a couple more.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:13:48] probably got mine [inaudible 00:13:51].
Adena:
And what are you guys doing now?
Albert:
Nothing. [Laughter].
Bart:
Unemployed [inaudible 00:13:59].
[00:14:00]
Adena:
You ought to think about applying for jobs [inaudible 00:14:02] having an inmate [inaudible 00:14:04].
Bart:
Yeah.
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:14:07].
Albert:
Oh yeah?
Adena:
Yeah.
Albert:
What’s it pay?
Bart:
Moving out?
Adena:
Not great. It’s about $4 an hour.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:14:21] now?
Adena:
You could try. Certainly be [inaudible 00:14:21] doing Alcatraz, the history, basically. [Inaudible 00:14:27]-
[00:14:30]
Albert:
I'm surprised how small it is. Normally the prison would be a lot bigger.
Adena:
Yeah, literally San Francisco [inaudible 00:14:45] and just for the people that lived here, Alcatraz was something that you'd have to think about.
Bart:
Yeah. Like I said, [inaudible 00:14:45] from school, and [inaudible 00:14:47] living [inaudible 00:14:47] parents were living [inaudible 00:14:48]. I had the coolest [inaudible 00:14:54] Bob Hart [crosstalk 00:14:55]-
Adena:
Yeah.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:14:56] serious.
Albert:
What about Brian?
Adena:
[Crosstalk 00:14:58]-
Albert:
[Crosstalk 00:14:58]-
[00:15:00]
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:14:58] he was in the hospital wasn't he? He shot his dog.
Albert:
Shot Johnny James, shot a horse because he wouldn't run. He was the highway patrolman.
Bart:
We're just going to say he was a bit of a weirdo, I guess. And then there was another [inaudible 00:15:16] together [inaudible 00:15:18] heard about it was a bar or two.
Adena:
But wait, then you were still part of the kids too, huh? What was that like?
Albert:
Yeah. What kids?
[00:15:30]
Bart:
Well, there was a lot of them I guess, and half of them many we didn't know, but there was one or two that I did know, like this Bob Hart, I don't know, [inaudible 00:15:37] and all there is for [inaudible 00:15:39]. Yeah, he didn't [inaudible 00:15:46], but we were there [inaudible 00:15:49], and stuff like that [inaudible 00:15:53]-
Adena:
But you never went to Alcatraz [inaudible 00:15:55]?
Bart:
No, never went over [inaudible 00:15:59]-
Albert:
Well, you couldn't get her on there.
[00:16:00]
Bart:
Well, hey, you just go there right by the park [inaudible 00:16:03] they had us sit and I was [inaudible 00:16:06].
Albert Patain:
Oh, really?
Bart:
Yeah. [Inaudible 00:16:11] to the left here, and since you're adopted, I said, "[Inaudible 00:16:18]". And then [inaudible 00:16:18].
Albert Patain:
[Inaudible 00:16:18].
Bart:
Yeah you can. I still [inaudible 00:16:18] on that.
Albert:
Fishing [inaudible 00:16:18].
Bart:
That's some kind of [inaudible 00:16:18].
Adena:
Fishing?
Albert:
Yeah, you couldn't get too close when [inaudible 00:16:18].
Adena:
Oh, did they
Albert:
Yeah. White, silent.
Adena:
Was there a buoy?
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
Around there?
Albert:
[Inaudible 00:16:18]. But the [inaudible 00:16:18] in there, so we go in there anyway.
Bart:
Right.
Albert:
We used to wait and then [inaudible 00:16:18].
Adena:
So you do know of this, then [inaudible 00:16:18] never got your curiosity up [crosstalk 00:16:18]-
Albert:
I did, I went there, I went on a tour.
Adena:
You did go on one?
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
What did you think of it?
Albert:
It was boring. [Laughter].
Adena:
It was boring?
Albert:
Yeah. No big thing. I shouldn't say that.
Adena:
No, it doesn't matter, no.
Bart:
I’d like to go on tour one day [inaudible 00:17:18].
Adena:
Yeah.
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
Nobody's actually there now, so the [inaudible 00:16:28] take you out there [crosstalk 00:16:28]-
Albert:
Oh, they just show you the prison. They don’t show you the whole island. There's a lot of other places for them to go to. Like what was it, the mill?
Bart:
Yeah.
Adena:
Yeah, the powerhouse and [inaudible 00:17:30] building.
Albert:
Yeah [inaudible 00:17:35].
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:17:35].
Albert:
Huh. Maybe walk around on one of these special tours.
[00:17:30]
Adena:
Yeah [inaudible 00:17:45]-
Bart:
Come back in town, we'll go [inaudible 00:17:55].
Adena:
I'll write down the name for you [inaudible 00:17:55] it's [inaudible 00:17:55] I'll introduce you to the [inaudible 00:17:55]. But you got anything else to add about John Paul?
[00:18:00]
Bart:
No, it's just, if you ask me a specific question [inaudible 00:18:05] 15 years [inaudible 00:18:06]-
Adena:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:18:08]-
Bart:
That's just our narration of doing [inaudible 00:18:10] and like I said, that was it, to us they gave us a hundred dollar savings bond and [crosstalk 00:18:17]-
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:18:17] someone turned him in.
Albert:
Yeah.
Bart:
Sure. But then it was [inaudible 00:18:24] the time was even... Well, it's nice to hear about things like that people saying [inaudible 00:18:28] without getting too excited about it, and [inaudible 00:18:28] and reasons like that. And so, anyways, someone [inaudible 00:18:28] that's how we...
Albert:
Well, people said he [inaudible 00:18:28] that was really nice to hear.
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:18:28]-
Albert:
Like you say, [inaudible 00:18:28] turned him in.
[00:18:30]
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:18:28] some things you find out more [inaudible 00:18:38] when you had [inaudible 00:18:51]?
Albert:
Yeah, yeah that's why I asked you what it was.
Adena:
Maybe [inaudible 00:18:59] can tell us, maybe he knows.
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
If not, [inaudible 00:19:00].
Bart:
[00:19:00]
I remember at the final, I remember couple [inaudible 00:19:01] happen I was wondering if [inaudible 00:19:05] something like that.
Adena:
You've wondered about that, huh?
Bart:
At the time.
Albert:
Sure, sure.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:19:12] I remember saying how [inaudible 00:19:14] didn't seem to give him [inaudible 00:19:17] or something like that.
Albert:
I remember saying all he had to do was say something. But he just couldn't talk.
Bart:
I know.
Albert:
Say [inaudible 00:19:22] was fine.
Adena:
What would you have done?
Albert:
Throw him in the car, cup of chicken soup, and give him a couple of bucks.
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:19:30]-
[00:19:30]
Adena:
Take him home with you?
Albert:
I think we had an apartment at the time.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:19:42].
Albert:
[Inaudible 00:19:42].
Bart:
Yeah.
Albert:
[Inaudible 00:19:42].
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:19:44]-
Albert:
[Crosstalk 00:19:44]-
Adena:
If you had done that, he may have [inaudible 00:19:47], don't you know?
Albert:
Well, there could be others.
Adena:
Yeah.
Bart:
That was the other thing-
Albert:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:19:52]-
Bart:
[00:20:00]
They said there was a lot that they never found the body or any trace of him actually some of it was such a difficult swim for him [inaudible 00:20:02].
Adena:
Five bodies.
Bart:
Oh, that's the full body [inaudible 00:20:04] count now?
Adena:
Yeah, two were in the early years and three others were [inaudible 00:20:09] prison closed right before John Paul Scott [imprisoned for bank robbery and was the only known escapee from Alcatraz] got [inaudible 00:20:12].
Albert:
Yeah. I remember that.
Adena:
He was the last one. Do you think that maybe had to do with closing the prison because he made it to the other side?
Albert:
No, I thought they closed because it was run down.
Bart:
I have no idea. I think it was some administrative decision and it's not adequate [inaudible 00:20:30]-
[00:20:30]
Albert:
Or run down.
Bart:
Run down.
Adena:
Yeah, the cops.
Bart:
I don't know how it got run down.
Adena:
The cops. But some people have said to us that John Paul Scott [imprisoned for bank robbery and was the only known escapee from Alcatraz] was the last one to ever escape, and he was the only one that ever made it to the other side alive.
Bart:
Yeah.
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
So some people say that was one of the reasons it closed down, because [inaudible 00:20:49]. You'd have to be [inaudible 00:20:53].
Bart:
[00:21:00]
Like saying [inaudible 00:20:54] I guess, it seems like [inaudible 00:20:58] all these people getting out of there [inaudible 00:21:01] garbage trucks and garbage cans and digging out of [inaudible 00:21:01]. Much of the [inaudible 00:21:01].
Albert:
[Inaudible 00:21:01] cost a lot of money to run, too.
Adena:
Yeah it was.
Albert:
It wasn't that big of a prison.
Adena:
Right. [Crosstalk 00:21:17].
Albert:
It's small. It's unbelievably small. It was what, three tiers?
[00:21:30]
Adena:
Yeah. It was three tiers. Held an average of about 200 to 250 men.
Albert:
Yeah.
Bart:
They had some famous [crosstalk 00:21:43]-
Albert:
San Francisco [crosstalk 00:21:43]-
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:21:43] something like [inaudible 00:21:43] Alcatraz [inaudible 00:21:43] or something like that.
Albert:
Yeah, I saw Al Capone's [an American gangster also known as “Scarface” who was imprisoned for tax evasion] cell.
Adena:
You did?
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
They showed it to you?
Albert:
Yeah. On the tour. [Laughter]. It's a big deal [inaudible 00:21:44] separate, everyone's in a private room.
Adena:
So, do you guys want anything? [Inaudible 00:21:56]?
Albert:
[Inaudible 00:21:55] had something.
Bart:
[00:22:00]
He was our credit in the stars, and impressionable people bought it, and then you could ask him what he thought about us [crosstalk 00:22:00]-
Albert:
Yeah, what was your impression of it?
Adena:
Yeah.
Bart:
That we have [inaudible 00:22:04]? [Inaudible 00:22:04]?
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:22:04] as a thing?
Albert:
It'd still win. It's supposed to be in the Guinness Book of World Records saying so.
Adena:
Really?
Albert:
Yeah. And Encyclopedia [inaudible 00:22:04].
Adena:
Was that impressive?
Bart:
I'm sure [inaudible 00:22:04].
Albert:
Yeah.
Bart:
The only person to escape [inaudible 00:22:04] ask [inaudible 00:22:05] something like that [inaudible 00:22:08]. I'd assume, and I haven't seen or even heard about [inaudible 00:22:10] but-
Albert:
I'm trying to get the movie, the [inaudible 00:22:10] on the news channels, or should we find to see if he's 15 years old [crosstalk 00:22:27]-
[00:22:30]
Adena:
Yeah that would be interesting, too. They're trying to get some sort of a film festival at Alcatraz so we could show [inaudible 00:22:58] and things like that. If you got it [inaudible 00:22:58]-
[00:23:00]
Albert:
Well, a friend of mine [inaudible 00:22:58] channel seven. But he's always drunk and never remembers to ask for money. Seriously.
Adena:
No, but I mean who we can talk to and [inaudible 00:23:10] with the background, it'd be interesting for us to see [inaudible 00:23:10] background.
Albert:
Yeah.
Bart:
Yeah.
Albert:
You'd probably have more pull getting in, though.
Adena:
Maybe they would. I don't know.
Albert:
Because channel two, [inaudible 00:23:17] remember the day-
Bart:
[Crosstalk 00:23:19]-
Albert:
I'm sure they got a file somewhere.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:23:20] motivation.
Adena:
Yeah.
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:23:20] department [inaudible 00:23:20] police.
[00:23:30]
Albert:
So what else you want to know?
Adena:
No, I think after we've covered John Paul Scott [imprisoned for bank robbery and was the only known escapee from Alcatraz], that's it.
Albert:
Yep.
Adena:
It's interesting, though. Glad we finally got ahold of you guys. Would you care for the tour guides [inaudible 00:23:43] on the tours?
Bart:
[Inaudible 00:23:46] I don't know [inaudible 00:23:48]. [Inaudible 00:23:50].
Albert:
Yeah.
Adena:
And I never mentioned [inaudible 00:23:51] take them and decide that they'd like to talk to you again, [inaudible 00:23:56]?
Bart:
Sure.
Albert:
I think you got my number.
[00:24:00]
Adena:
[Inaudible 00:24:00] I'll get it [inaudible 00:24:00] put it in my files. Thanks a lot.
Bart:
Thank you.
Description
Interview with Bart and Albert about their finding John Paul Scott at Fort Point after he had escaped Alcatraz.
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