Scroll down to Imperial County to access the audio tour and map. The Bureau of Land Management created this audio tour that includes two sites along the Anza Trail: the Juan Bautista de Anza Overlook and the Yuha Well. Either download these audio files to accompany a visit to these sites or to experience a virtual visit.
Interviews from “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Paula: Postmaster
Paula: Postmaster interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: You’re the postmistress here in Jacumba. And your name?
Paula: Paula Whisnat. I see the post office in a small town as ………Many people will tell me it’s like the hub. So people will come here to me, and they’ll ask me because they just think I’m in the know. Sometimes I am, and sometimes I’m not. Um, so I try to connect them with anything that they might need. Often times, though, it’s completely not, unrelated to postal, they might need a plumber. They might need an electrician. Do I know anybody? So, then I will hook them up with whoever does those things in town. Their heater went out. Their propane went out. So, they’ll ask me, and I hook ‘em up with whoever they can … whoever can help them.
Interviewer: I’m looking around the post office, and I see some things that are posted that really aren’t about the post office, but it’s like one is, I guess, for the memorial service that’s coming up next week.
Paula: Um hmm.
Interviewer: And, I think that’s one of the nice things about this, you know, this kind of …
Paula: It’s community.
Paula: Yeah. Where, it seems to wind up being a communal hub. Um hmm, a family community… slash community.
Interviewer: How have you seen the community change since you’ve been here?
Paula: People ask me that. They ask, ‘Has it changed much?’, and interestingly, really, what I can tell you is that people come, and people go. And people come, and people go. So, I cannot tell you that there has been any drastic change, one way or the other, because really, the drastic change came before we moved here. When old Highway 80 was no longer the main access to go east… And we weren’t here then. Because then the freeway was already in place and the town was bypassed. So, when we came, that had already gone. That had already happened. So, this is the only way I’ve ever known it. Everybody has a little space here. And everyone does something different. Ok? So this is my little place.
Interviewer: Oh…
Paula: Jacumba’s a great little place, very unique, very interesting, because of the diversity that exists.
Interviewer: Yeah, and also … the ‘live and let live’.
Paula: Um hmm.
Interviewer: It’s very sort of uh … well … uh, very tolerant of allowing people to be whoever they are.
Paula: Absolutely, and I like that, too.
Frank: Manager
Frank: Manager interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: And Frank, do you live here in Ocotillo?
Frank: No, I live on the Campo Indian Reservation.
Interviewer: What is, what indigenous group is that?
Frank: The Kumeyayaay People.
Interviewer: The area we’re in now, was this part of their traditional homeland?
Frank: Yes, this is definitely a winter, winter stay area, and for the Kumeyayaay
Frank: because what you had in the mountains, is the weather gets cold, so we have, basically, the most geographically diverse area of any tribe in the United States because we go from the coast to the mountains to the desert.
Interviewer: Right now, we’re at the Desert Museum here in Ocotillo. What is your relationship or your function here at the museum?
Frank: I’m the Cultural Collections and Programs Manager, and so what I do is I evaluate some of the collections that we have for any sensitivity. I also consult with my tribe on anything that might be a concern to us. Um, I was the NAGPRA Repatriation Director for my tribe, um for five years. I’ve been a senior consultant doing a consultation regarding cultural resource management and NAGPRA issues for the last twenty years.
Interviewer: Pardon me, and when you say NAGPRA, what is …?
Frank: NAGPRA is Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act. It was a law passed in 1990.
Interviewer: And, and give me an example of, something that might be, when you say culturally sensitive issue. What has something like that wound up being in the past?
Frank: That’s uh, like funerary ollas, pottery, things that were cremations, anything dealing with human remains.
Interviewer: Well, being as that we’re here, speaking in Ocotillo, and there was the large wind generation project that started a couple of years ago, um, did that turn up any artifacts?
Frank: Anywhere you go, from the coast all the way out, all the way out throughout the desert to Algodones Dunes south to Mexico, I mean, there’s probably, California’s got over 117 tribes so, anywhere you go, people traveled, people walked, … things people find are like monos, but a lot of those have been collected over the years…
Interviewer: And ‘mono’ is what?
Frank: Mono is a Spanish word, but it’s basically, it’s the uh, it’s for food processing. It’s the grinding stone that you crush against another stone, a larger stone, you know. And that could be any material: granite, dolomite, sandstone. Some of them, they consider mobile, where you can kind of move them around. I mean you wouldn’t want to go long distances, but some of them are the mortars. They’re holes, where you’re just in one spot. So, you’ll find those up in the mountains. You’ll find them at the base of these, um the base of these mountains right down here. You’ll find them near the coast and in inland valleys. Um, the type of pots you might see here, or in a museum in our collection, are the coil clay. That’s where you’re basically circling. It’s a coil. It’s basically exactly like it sounds. You’re coiling it and making it up into a shape. You’re hitting it with a paddle, you’re shaping it. Then, when you get a finished product, you dry it out for a little while. Then you fire it to temper it.
Interviewer: What else will you do with this particular group today?
Frank: Um, they were talking about we wanted to do a hike. So, we’ll show them, we’ll get them familiar with what the natural environment is out here, you know? And then with cactus, with the Ocotillo, some of the native plants and those plants that were for medicinally. They’re also used for shelter, fire… The different types of stones where you make tools out of stones. So you might look at the desert and go: what do you do? If someone puts you out here today, what am I going to do? How do I survive, right? We have several acres of property. So, most of the things are in this desert. We’ve got cactus here, we’ve got the Ocotillo. We got the stones, we have actually some archaeological sites, that kind of thing.
Sammie: Homemaker
Sammie: Homemaker interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: And, Sammie, you live… In what town do you live? Do you live here in Jacumba?
Sammie: Jacumba, yes.
Interviewer: And, how long have you lived here?
Sammie: Since 1968.
Interviewer: What, what, what drew you to this area?
Sammie: Well, my ex, which is deceased, he got a job working for the railroad. It was Southern Pacific. He went to work there, and I came from Texas, out here, to be with him… after he got the job.
Interviewer: What part of Texas were you living in?
Interviewer: Austin?
Sammie: Hmm hmm.
Interviewer: Uh, how long ago was that?
Sammie: Since 1968! (laughter)
Interviewer: ’68?
Interviewer: Now, was your husband African-American also?
Sammie: Yes. Hmm hmm.
Interviewer: When did he pass?
Interviewer: When you came here, what was your first impression?
Sammie: It was just, you know, quiet, quiet little town. Nice, but quiet.
Interviewer: And when you and he moved here, did you bring kids with you? Did you have children?
Sammie: I had three little boys, three. (laughter)
Interviewer: And so they grow up here in Jacumba?
Sammie: Oh yeah, umm hmm.
Interviewer: What was it like to be, um, well… Were you the only African-American family here in ’68?
Sammie: I don’t think so. There was quite a few other black people. There was Lou and Jake. They lived… we lived, well, when we first came, he was living back there by the railroad track. Cause they had train coaches.
Interviewer: So, you actually lived, you lived in the train coach?
Sammie: Yeah, umm hmm, when I came, yeah.
Interviewer: And is this way up Railroad Street where the old station is?
Sammie: Yeah. Straight up Railroad. Yeah.
Interviewer: Were you a stay at home mom?
Sammie: Oh yeah, (laughter). There’s hardly any placed around here to work. Yeah, I stayed at home… and he went to work. Uh huh. And I was pregnant when I got here, so… (laughter), so my oldest daughter was born in El Centro.
Interviewer: Was there a doctor here at that time?
Sammie: No. Not that I know of. Not that could deliver babies.
Interviewer: So, there were no banks here.
Interviewer: Was there a market? Was there just the one market?… Or was there…
Sammie: There was the Jacumba Hotel, a big hotel that burned down; it burned down.
Interviewer: Uh hunh.
Sammie: That, well, and then, uh, next door, there was a pharmacy. We had a little pharmacy. And, we had a liquor store, and we had a Anderson’s Market across the street. A little market. And then later on, they had like a little market where the regular store is now.
Interviewer: Were there a number of people who worked here for the railroad?
Sammie: Oh yeah.
Interviewer: When you look at the town…
Sammie: Hmm…
Interviewer: …at Jacumba, in 2014, as opposed to when you first came here in 1968, how would you characterize how it’s changed, or has it changed any?
Sammie: Well, uh, it’s changed quite a bit.
Dilda: Entrepreneur
Dilda: Entrepreneur interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: And (pause) …were you born here in El Centro?
Dilda: Yes
Interviewer: Where did your parents come from?
Dilda: Arkansas
Interviewer: And what brought them here?
Dilda: I think that they were looking for job opportunities, basically (pause) My father came out and worked in agriculture as a laborer, cleaning the shed and doing a lot maintenance work. When he was here my uncle came out then other relatives came, my mom came, she brought her sister. You know people just migrated this way from the south. In the 50’s, late 50’s, 60’s, 70’s there was an extremely large population, particularly in El Centro and throughout the valley I think in Imperial, Brawley…..there were a lot of African-Americans. A lot of African-Americans in Calipatria area. As African-Americans graduated from high school, uhm….they left…for more opportunities. Then as the opportunities declined they went to mechanization….they didn’t need the labor anymore. So African-Americans left Imperial Valley where it was agriculture and they would follow the crops but then when it came to mechanization there was no need for a lot of physical labor. The lettuce the way they were doing, they would use lettuce machines and water melons they would swap water melons, load the trucks. So labor opportunities declined and African Americans said, ”We need to go to urban areas….Los Angeles…get out of Imperial Valley, there are no opportunities there for us. And the African-American population dwindled. If you go back to the school districts…they can show you photos of you know, a predominately African-American school….. called Douglass High School , it was predominately an African-American school .
Interviewer: And where was that located?
Dilda: Here, in El Centro, on the east side of El Centro.
Interviewer: And when you say eastside. That would be east of 4th Street?
Dilda: East of 4th you know, as people would call it, I think it was located on 1st street no 2nd street. Then they had integration. Blacks would walk from the east side of El Centro to Central Union High School. During integration time blacks and Hispanics were predominantly going to Washington Elementary School which was a “K” through 6th grade then go over to the west side for 7th and 8th grade. And then you would go from there to Central Union High School….that was back in the day. There was a very strong population but now it’s dwindled down to two or three percent of the population in Imperial County at this particular time. I’ve raised my children here, I have grandchildren here so I guess it depends upon the pace of a person and what they are looking for……but Imperial Valley has been very comfortable for me.
Emma: Intern
Emma: Intern interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: How long have you lived here in the valley?
Emma: Since, my seventh grade year. I was born here. We moved to Colorado when I was three weeks old, and I lived there until I was 12.
Interviewer: And Colorado to here is quite a change.
Emma: Yeah, it is.
Interviewer: What, how… was that difficult?
Emma: Um, I think it was less difficult because in between living there and living here, I traveled around the country with my dad, and… well, my whole family traveled, but my Dad was in the agricultural business, so we went around.
Interviewer: Does your dad work in the agriculture … here in the valley?
Emma: Yeah, he does.
Interviewer: Do you think that you’ll wind up working in agriculture?
Emma: No, not at all (laughs).
Interviewer: What kind of thing would you wind up doing? Do you have an idea?
Emma: Um, exactly what I’m doing right now (laughs).
Interviewer: You want to be in the museum field?
Emma: I do. Yeah.
Interviewer: And, what, do you know what type of museum you want to work at?
Emma: Yeah, I want to work in a U.S. history museum. So, preferably on the East Coast, something that has to do with the Civil War.
Interviewer: You’re at uh….. Imperial Valley Community College right now?
Emma: I’m at San Diego State in Calexico.
Interviewer: So, can you do a full curriculum …?
Emma: You can. Yes.
Interviewer: And, so… is it, it’s like a satellite campus?
Emma: It is, yeah. We have a full library. We have… they’re mainly… now they’ve switched to E-books, so it’s a small library, but there… everything is available online. All the resources that you would get at the main campus… The teachers, some of them have taught at the main campus.
Interviewer: What drew you to decide that that’s what you wanted to do?
Emma: Um, to be, work in a museum?
Interviewer: The year that I traveled the country, my mom home-schooled me and she is very into history, and a lot of my family on my dad’s side grew up in North Carolina and South Carolina and Virginia. So, when we would go back there, we would visit all the battlefields and all of the, the sites that they have back there. All of the museums and, and everything, and it just really interested me because I had a hands-on experience with all of the history that was going on at that time.
Interviewer: You intern here at the museum?
Emma: Yes.
Interviewer: Other than school and internships, what do you and your friends do… do for fun?
Emma: (Laughs) Oh gosh. A lot of the time we travel to San Diego, to Yuma, even places in the valley. I really like to drive, so I like to… And I like to travel because I grew up with that. So, it’s not necessarily that these places have better things to do, but the journey getting there is what I like to spend my time doing.
Interviewer: And will you go with a group of girlfriends, or a mixed group or…?
Emma: Yeah! With whoever wants to go, even just one person if …
Interviewer: The one thing that I’ve noticed here is that the lines, the racial strictures, are much more fluid than what you would find in San Diego…
Emma: Umm hmm
Interviewer: …or in Colorado.
Interviewer: How does that play out in your own life?
Emma: I think that works in my favor, (laughs), a lot, because I am not Hispanic at all, and uh, but, I grew up, I like to say that I grew up here. My mom grew up here. My grandma grew up here, and they all… The culture that they celebrate is the Mexican culture. And I think that it’s so amazing that people that don’t have any, no Mexican in them, genetically, or anything, can celebrate a culture, and be part of the culture because it’s, I mean it’s what they grew up with.
Bob: Offroader
Bob: Offroader interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: Bob. Thank you very much (sure) for sitting and talking with me. How long have you been coming here to Ocotillo Wells?
Bob: Ah, I’ve been coming to this area actually since the day I was born. There’s pictures of me as a toddler out here, camping with my grandparents and my parents.
Interviewer: Did they bring vehicles down also?
Bob: Uh, they did. Back then, we were just tents and trucks and that’s all, just…
Interviewer: But no ATVs or…
Bob: No, and motorcycles, even back then, yep.
Interviewer: So, when you were a kid, they actually had like, dune buggies, right, sand rails?
Bob: Uh, they did, hm, they um, I don’t recall sand rails out here, but there was modified jeeps.
Interviewer: Uh hunh.
Bob: In fact, there used to be quite a large group of the old Willie’s jeeps from World War II that people had modified used to be out here for the longest time. I know that my cousins had one that we always had out here, so.
Interviewer: And you’re, how old are you?
Bob: I am forty-six now.
Interviewer: So this is, we’re talking about back in the late sixties then.
Bob: That’s uh, yeah, yeah, since, ’67.
Interviewer: And do you happen to know how long your grandfather had been coming out?
Bob: Um, probably since shortly after World War II, since they settled in this area right after he got back from serving in the Pacific, so…
Interviewer: He settled in this area?
Bob: Uh he did, yes.
Interviewer: And so, so your whole childhood, you’ve spent coming down here?
Bob: I have, yes. I’ve spent a lot of time out here. A lot of good memories.
Interviewer: And do you always come to this particular part, um, or do you go to other parts, too, down here?
Bob: Um, there’s other parts we go to as well: uh, the Chocolate Mountains on the other side of the Salton Sea, up in Anza Borrego proper, up there as well.
Interviewer: When you go up to Anza Borrego, where do you go?
Bob: We just camped just outside of Borrego Springs is where we used to just pull over and camp. That was back when we used to tent camp; we’ve never taken the trailers up there. But uh, yeah, that’s back when we just used to do trail riding and Jeeps.
Interviewer: Today, you’re here on ATVs, right?
Bob: Correct.
Interviewer: And, what, and you have the dog, too, and he seems to pretty much like it.
Bob: He loves it.
Interviewer: Uh, do you see wildlife when you come?
Bob: So, mostly lizards and stuff, coyotes at night. Lots of rabbits out here, birds…
Interviewer: Has it changed over the period of time that you’ve been coming?
Bob: In this particular area, yeah, as part of the State Recreation Area, it has, just because there’s more people that come to visit here now. But up in Anza Borrego proper, it’s still pretty close to how I remember it as a kid. There’s still, there’s more wildlife up in that area. You can still find a horny toad up there when you need to.
Bob: And today has been pretty windy. Has it been kicking up dust around here? Uh, we see it out in the valley, but that’s why we’re camped up here near the canyon, so that we’re staying out of those parts. We’ve been watching it out here, sitting here enjoying our tea and (laughter), watching quite the sand storms kicking up out there.
Bob: (Another person): Yep, glad we’re not there…….Laughter.
Interviewer: Have you ever been down, when it’s really hot down there?
Bob: Um, I have been out here a couple of times, not recently. We try to avoid summers out here. It’s hard for the kids to enjoy it, …
Gabino: Foreman
Gabino: Foreman interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Gabino: Alfalfa, Sudan, wheat, klein grass, just basically grass.
Interviewer: Are they grasses that they use for feed?
Gabino: No, well, the Sudan, we use it for feed, too, but it, mostly it goes, it gets exported to… China, Japan.
Interviewer: And, what do they do with it?
Gabino: Well, from what I hear, they do the bumpers on the cars.
Interviewer: They use it as a component in a, uh…
Interviewer: …For putting in, uh, yeah.
Gabino: Like fiberglass, yeah.
Interviewer: You handed one of the workers, um, it looked like a piece of technology. What did you give him?
Gabino: I gave him uh, it’s a, it’s a computer module for a hay bailer.
Interviewer: There’s a great deal of technology involved in what you guys do.
Gabino: Oh yeah.
Interviewer: How long have you been working for the farm that you, that you’re the foreman, right?
Gabino: I’m the foreman for this one, yeah.
Interviewer: And how long have you been here? At this particular…
Gabino: Right here. Ten years.
Interviewer: And, you’re how old?
Gabino: I’m 36.
Interviewer: Your name again is?
Gabino: Gabino Parga.
Interviewer: You’re a third generation farmworker, is that correct?
Gabino: Yeah, that’s true.
Interviewer: And, did you, when you were younger did you ever work, um, with your dad?
Gabino: Yes, when I was 15 years old. Worked ever since.
Interviewer: And, what kind of work were you doing back then?
Gabino: Back then, was the farm, too. Same thing. Whatever my dad tell me, because he was the foreman back then.
Interviewer: Your dad was a foreman?
Gabino: (Laughter) Yeah, yep.
Interviewer: And what ranch did he work on?
Gabino: He worked on west of El Centro called………….. It was called Brickman Brothers.
Interviewer: And how many acres did they have out there?
Gabino: Ah, they probably had, probably a thousand.
Interviewer: And were you, were they doing grasses there, also?
Gabino: They were doing grass and sometimes, um, produce. Lettuce, carrots, but I never got into the carrot and lettuce stuff. All my stuff was like this… hay.
Interviewer: And, did most people sort of specialize in one thing or the other?
Gabino: Well, right here where we’re at everyone’s got to do a little bit of everything.
Interviewer: Where are we going now?
Gabino: We’re going to go check on this guy over here. He’s on the disk. He’s moving dirt around. ‘Cause we’re going to plant Sudan on it. This area is a pretty unforgiving climate at times. Right now, it’s not too hot. And, in the summer time, it gets hot!
Interviewer: What do you have to worry about when it’s hot?
Gabino: Water and shade. That’s the main thing: water and shade.
Interviewer: But there is no shade out here.
Gabino: They provide shade while we’re… When we’re working, we’re inside the cabs, and they got A/C. It’s not that harsh.
Interviewer: So, the grasses you’ll plant now, and then harvest through the heat of the summer, is that it?
Mike: Fisherman
Mike: Fisherman interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: And, Michael, um. It’s funny, I’m seeing you ride down the street with your bike. Uh, do you ride your bike a lot here in El Centro?
Michael: During the certain seasons where the weather’s actually nice. But that’s only maybe three, four months out of the year, that you can actually ride your bike. I would rather go and commute on my bike whenever it’s nice weather, rather than drive, because I feel like it’s worth it, and I get the exercise. The environment gets the benefit, so it’s a win-win.
Interviewer: How old are you?
Michael: Ah, twenty-three.
Interviewer: And, you participate in any outdoor activities here, locally?
Michael: Oh, I fish. I used to hunt, but I was going to U.C. Santa Barbara, so I haven’t hunted in four years, but every year I still go, still go out and fish.
Interviewer: And, when you hunt, where would you hunt locally?
Michael: Ah, depends on where I had rights to the land. And, because my dad used to be a farmer, so I used to have access to a lot more lands. Now, I’m very limited. I would have to go on to public lands, which at this point is just farmers who allow for public hunting. Which, I actually think is bad for the dove population because I’m a hunter who goes, and I kill, and I eat whatever I take. And my justification is, whatever I kill, I eat, and we help with natural selection based on our hunting. But based on the fact that certain areas aren’t there, if you’re not within the first two to three weeks, you don’t get any birds because they go to areas that are protected land based on landowners.
Interviewer: And, what kind of game will you look for other than birds?
Michael: Ah, I normally went for dove. Down here, we can’t really get mallard ducks because the southern migration doesn’t really hit here. But you can, if you know where you are going, and you have permission. You can actually get a good amount of pheasants, as well. But, especially the dove, I mean it’s very, very easy, even on public land, to go and kill your limit of dove.
Interviewer: Um… where, what kind of, when you go fishing, what kind of fish will you look for?
Michael: Uh, I normally go for Large-mouth Bass. Sometimes, I’ll go for Stripers and Small-mouth, but normally, I go for Large-mouth Bass during the day. Every once in awhile, I’ll go night fishing, and I will go for Catfish, but in general, I just go for Large-mouth Bass, which you can find on different canals and rivers around here in the El Centro area.
Interviewer: Is there a favorite place that you have?
Michael: Uh well, I won’t say exactly, but I will say, on the west main near the drop, there’s a certain place that I’ve caught the biggest Bass that I’ve ever caught.
Christie: Geocacher
Christie: Geocacher interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Chris: We’re up at the Desert View Tower. It’s about seven miles, I guess, east in the mountains from Jacumba, California.
Interviewer: And, we’re overlooking the, this is a beautiful overlook. There is a steep drop-off here to the valley floor below in Imperial.
Chris: Um hmm.
Interviewer: And, how do you find yourself up here?
Chris: Well, when I started being a full-time RV’er about seven or eight years ago, I would be working places during the summer, but I would need a place to stay during the winter. And, a friend brought me up here to the Tower for the first time. I’d never been here. I grew up in San Diego, but I’d never been here. ‘Cause we always went to the beach. And I fell in love with this place, and I asked Ben if he needed work campers and he said, “Well, sure.” So he allows me to stay up here during the winter any time I want, for as long as I want, for maybe a little bit of help in the store once in awhile. Beautiful area.
Chris: It’s a beautiful shot. Yes, you can see , you can see into Mexico, yes you can see as far as El Centro, yeah.
Interviewer: So, how long will you stay when you come up here for the winter?
Chris: Well, this winter, this is the first time I’ve been here since 2010. I’ve been here this time since the beginning of February, and I might be here for another month. I don’t know yet. I’m usually here maybe, at the most, two months before I go some place else.
Interviewer: Do you go site seeing in the area?
Chris: Oh yeah, I do a lot of hiking. The friends and I, we started geo-caching a number of years ago. In fact, I found my first geo-cache here, and now I’m up to almost 1600. And so we meet, and we do that. In fact, I do that all over the country with friends that I’ve met.
Interviewer: Uh, explain to me exactly what is geo-caching.
Chris: Ok. You know what a hand-held GPS is?
Chris: Ok. There’s an online site called geocaching.com; I think it is. Where they post… People will hide. It’s kind of like a treasure hunt. People will hide. They started out using big ammo cans, and they would put little trinkets and stuff inside, and a logbook for people to sign, that says ‘Yes, I’ve found this.’
Chris: Ok, so they’d hide those things various places, and then, get the coordinates for the GPS, and post that on this website, so people could, if they’re looking for a place to look a geo-cache, they can go on, and they can put the city, or the state, or a street that can narrow it down as much as they want, places they want to look for geo-caches. Like I could put in: Ocotillo, and then look to see how many websites, or how many geo-caches were hidden around Ocotillo. Uh, the friends and I, the other day, went out the frontage road that parallels, uh, the Interstate 8. This was the old Highway 80 between El Centro and Yuma. Well, there’s a hundred and, I guess there’s a hundred and nine geo-caches just hidden on that particular road, or near that particular road. So, a friend and I did about 25 of those the other day.
Dennis: Retiree
Dennis: Retiree interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: And Dennis, how long have you lived in Brawley?
Dennis: Since 1963.
Interviewer: And you’re how old? Do you mind me asking how old you are?
Dennis: No, I’m 73.
Interviewer: Did you always live here in the valley?
Dennis: No, I lived in Tucson, Arizona from 1940 until 1963. So…I came from the University of Arizona, where I graduated.
Interviewer: What brought you to Brawley?
Dennis: Well, as I said, I needed a job. I thought that I was going to inherit this money, and this was in the early 60s, and so, the land that I was to get money from had not been sold. So, it looked like Dennis was finally going to have to get a job. I was twenty-three years of age, and so… I had a double major in history and English, but I wanted to teach history, and so Brawley offered a history position. And so I came here, I signed the contract, and I came in the fall of ‘63.
Interviewer: What was Brawley like back in 1963?
Dennis: It was quiet. It’s grown some. But it was pretty quiet. It was a farming community. It was a little, you know, cut off from the rest of the world. But that was nice, you know?
Interviewer: Now, I just passed the high school, and it looked like most of the kids that were there now are Hispanic.
Dennis: Oh yeah. Definitely. The majority.
Interviewer: Was that the make-up in ’68 also?
Dennis: Um, yeah, I think so. But I think, shall we say, the Anglos were more in control. They’d always been in control, and the east side was, you know, for Mexicans. And Cesar Chavez always remembered that there was a sign on one of the restaurants: “We don’t serve dogs or Mexicans.”
Interviewer: Was he from here?
Dennis: I don’t, I don’t think so, but he worked here, and organized the labor here, and there was a lot of striking and so forth, uh that went on. The Anglos were in control, uh, and you know, as the 60s and Civil Rights, you know, kind of took over, uh, they’ve, I think kind of lost a lot of control.
Interviewer: Well, the first time I remember coming down 111( a hwy, state route 111) must have been uh, maybe in the early 80s, and it seemed like, at that time, that Brawley was a lot smaller and a lot more isolated.
Dennis: Yeah. But you know what with communications and so forth, you know, the internet and everything, you know, now, that’s all broken down. And of course, a lot of kids have gone away to school because of the 60s, they could go to Berkeley. They could go to all these schools. They had, you know, scholarships and so forth.
Interviewer: Well, it also seemed, too, that there were lots of smaller farms, and now I just see the remnants of what those… of those…
Dennis: Right, it’s like there used to be Mom and Pop grocery stores. But you know, it’s just the way the country is going.
Interviewer: How long have you been retired now?
Dennis: I stopped teaching in 2003. I taught for 40 years at Brawley Union High School, the only job I ever had.
Neal: Historian
Neal: Historian interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: Well, I’m sitting here in the Desert Museum of Ocotillo with the Director. Your name is?
Neal: Dr. Neal Hitch.
Interviewer: And, what is the overall mission of the Desert Museum?
Neal: Well, our mission is to um, interpret, preserve, and celebrate the deserts of southern California. As a desert museum, and as an idea in the community, um, we, we serve the percentage of the community that either is interested in playing in the desert, or interested in preserving the desert. And so, that’s a real interesting mix because, in many ways, those two constituencies are at opposite ends.
Um, but really, what we’ve found in the last couple of years, and it was a struggle the first year, but this year, for sure, that the museum tends to be a mediator between those two communities.
One, is because, if the desert isn’t used, it’s, it is going to be, um, it’s not appreciated. And when it’s not appreciated, things that aren’t appreciated can be lost.
And so, one of the things that we’ve found is we are trying to get more and more people to engage with how unique and special the desert is here, in Imperial in Imperial County. And, um, by doing that, by hiking, um, off-roading, um, camping, kind of being in the desert, what you do is, you kind of begin to appreciate the unique eco-systems that are here. And that’s where preservation begins.
When I first started going into classrooms here, and talking about the desert, I would, um, say like ‘How many people have ever been to the… how many people know who the Kumeyayaay People are? Not a single Ute kid in any classroom would have any idea.
Or, ‘How many people have ever hiked in the desert?’ Not a single kid in any classroom. ‘How many people know that we have more earthen art work on our deserts here, than anywhere outside of Nazca, Peru?’ No one has any idea what that is.
So, when you come into a community, and you try to argue that we should be preserving this earthen artwork and archeology sites in the desert, and no one has any idea it’s here, has never seen it, that is… the message of preservation is lost. So, what we’ve done from day one is tried to get people into the desert. Try to see these things. And when you come to have some experience, and I’ve been out in the desert with people with their first experience, that have been almost spiritual in understanding that this isn’t… crappy piece of land that, you know, is good for nothing. But this is an amazing place.
Like you… it’s a sea-change of attitude. And, uh you know, we certainly have not changed the attitudes of everyone, right, but we are starting, and we are seeing almost weekly on our programs, that that’s working. That we’re seeing people that really, had never been in the desert before, and find that the desert is pretty cool. They actually like it. And then they come back, in program after program.
I have a unique perspective on communities. I have an absolute love of the diverse landscapes we have globally. And, I was extremely taken, uh, by the desert, and when I interviewed here, extremely taken by this devotion of this handful of … my board, the board of directors that was running this museum. This handful of local people that have been working so long to try and open a museum, that I just…, I can’t believe the tenacity and drive, um, that they’ve had with almost no local expertise helping them.
Antonio: Shepherd
Antonio: Shepherd interview as part of “Ocotillo: A Photo Essay from Imperial Valley” by Tony Gleaton
Interviewer: And Tony, you’re a sheepherder, right?
Tony: Yeh, I’m sheep herd; I’m herder. We work with the sheep. I’m put the water, but I got, we’ve got other friends. They move, they make fences for the sheep.
Interviewer: So, when the sheep are here, do you normally put them in fields that are already plowed, and they just eat the remainder?
Tony: First, we put them in Sudan grass.
Interviewer: You say, Sudan grass? And that’s a type of grass?
Tony: Yeh, and when come the wintertime, sometimes, you know, it’s a lot of rain; we put the lambs in Bermuda grass.
Interviewer: Oh, ok. Well, you are from Peru, is that correct?
Interviewer: Were you a sheepherder in Peru, also?
Tony: Yeah, my family and all my neighbors, they’ve got cows, sheep, and horse.
Interviewer: And what state are you from in Peru?
Interviewer: Junin?
Interviewer: And that’s the name of a town also, isn’t it?
Tony: Yeah, it’s the middle, in the sierra, and the center of Peru. Near to Lima, but it’s in the mountains.
Interviewer: In las sierra?
Tony: In las sierra.
Interviewer: So, you’re really fluent in English. Did you learn that here, or did you learn that back in Peru?
Tony: Well, I worked in the northern states, in Montana, and that area, everybody speaks English. So I need to speak English, and my friend told me, “You are in the United States, so you need to speak English. When I moved to Peru, maybe I need to speak Spanish.” So that’s the first time I began to try to speak English.
Interviewer: Do you have a family?
Tony: No, I’m alone.
Interviewer: How old are you?
Tony: Thirty-two.
Interviewer: And how many years have you been coming back and forth doing this here?
Tony: Well, I come every three years, but I’m here eleven years.
Interviewer: All told. You’ve been doing this eleven years?
Interviewer: When you go back in the summer, and you’re out on the BLM land, will you be by yourself, just you and the sheep?
Interviewer: And how long will you stay out there by yourself?
Tony: Uh, well, one herder got, sometimes, a thousand sheep.
Interviewer: Uh hunh.
Tony: And with the babies, maybe other thousand so, when August or September, you’ve got two thousand. It’s only for one herder. And you’ve got your horse in some areas, or two dogs for help you, so, you’re only good friend, I think, is your dogs. The Border Collie…
Last updated: December 30, 2024
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