Video
The Opening of Brown v. Board of Education NHS: Court TV Discusses the Brown Cases
Transcript
00:00:11:12 - 00:00:31:05
Unknown
When you hear Brown versus the Board of Education, do you ever wonder, you know, who was Brown? Oliver Brown was a 32 year old man raising three small daughters. He had boxed in the Golden Gloves, and he was studying for the ministry and really just living his life in a in kind of a quiet way and not really looking to do anything that was going to change the country.
00:00:31:07 - 00:00:55:16
Unknown
He was asked by a childhood friend who was one of the attorneys for the Topeka NAACP, if he would be willing to be part of a class action to challenge this whole notion of segregated public schools. It was a risk they were taken. So the Brown decision really was able to do was not simply open the doors for educational opportunity and in fact, started this whole dialog about race and in fact, change the whole country.
00:00:55:18 - 00:01:06:13
Unknown
I'm Cheryl Brown Henderson, and my dad was a late Reverend Oliver Brown.
00:01:06:14 - 00:01:34:03
Unknown
Hello, I'm James Curtis. 2004 marks the 50th anniversary of the Brown versus Board of Education decision, a legal milestone that changed the social landscape of this country. Beyond measure, court TV is proud to present a tribute to this momentous occasion. The namesake of the Brown versus board of Education case was Reverend Oliver Brown, the father of a young African-American girl who was denied entry into an all white school that was near their home.
00:01:34:05 - 00:01:56:23
Unknown
Like so many others, she was forced to walk miles away to a rundown, segregated school for black students. Although the Browns lived in Topeka, Kansas, the Brown versus board case was actually made up of five cases from around the country. These were families who had decided to stand up to the status quo and demand equality for their children and for themselves.
00:01:57:02 - 00:02:24:15
Unknown
The case, led by Thurgood Marshall, declared that the 58 year old law requiring blacks to attend separate public schools was unconstitutional. The United States Supreme Court ruled unanimously in favor of Brown, basing their decision on the 14th Amendment guarantee of equal protection for all citizens, regardless of their race. The established landscape of separate but equal conditions for whites and blacks was thereby deemed unlawful.
00:02:24:21 - 00:02:52:17
Unknown
Within the next few decades. Not only schools, but all realms of public life were forcibly integrated, creating countless advances and opportunities for people of color. On May 17th, I went to Linda Brown's elementary school in Topeka, Kansas, to join thousands of others honoring the anniversary of the landmark decision. Among the many commemorating the day at the Munroe Elementary School were President George W Bush and civil rights leader Jesse Jackson, among others.
00:02:52:19 - 00:03:18:07
Unknown
And I was joined by 12 Topeka, Kansas, high school students eager to learn about the case and discuss the decision and its effects today. We had the rare privilege of speaking to a Supreme Court justice, Justice Stephen Breyer, as well as Brian Jones. He's the general counsel to the Department of Education. Both about their experiences with desegregation and its current effects on education.
00:03:18:08 - 00:03:45:03
Unknown
We learned about some of the key players in the decision, including Judge Robert Carter, the architect of the cases brilliant legal strategy, and we heard about the long legal fight that preceded the Brown versus board case and ultimately led to the nationwide desegregation movement. Please join me now as we return to Topeka to celebrate and reflect on this groundbreaking historic event.
00:03:45:05 - 00:04:14:04
Unknown
Just behind me, over my shoulder, is the historic site dedicated to the historic relevance and significance of the Brown versus Board of Education decision that is Monroe Elementary School. It is the elementary school that Linda Brown. The Brown and the Brown versus board of Education was attending 50 years ago when she tried to go to a school just three miles that way from this very location, because that school was closer to her house.
00:04:14:09 - 00:04:37:19
Unknown
She was not allowed to. Why? Because that school was a segregated white school. She was not allowed to attend. Oliver Brown, her father, tried to enroll her in that school just a few blocks away, and she was refused. Linda was rejected and forced to attend this school behind us. Now that school, Monroe Elementary, is dedicated as a National Historic Site.
00:04:37:21 - 00:04:57:19
Unknown
As I said before, we have Highland Park High School kids joining me here today, 12 and all, the 11th and 12th graders. They are bright. They are eager. They are ready to share their thoughts. Let me talk with them, all of you, for just a minute. Kim, you go to high school here in Topeka, Kansas. What's it like now?
00:04:57:21 - 00:05:23:11
Unknown
Our high school is integrated greatly, like it's so diverse. Probably every type of religion, race, cultural background, no matter what. It's at Highland Park and everybody gets along. There's no like, there's no difference. Everybody is a person at Highland Park. Holly, your grandmother was friends with Linda Brown, the same Linda Brown who was forced to stay in this school, Monroe Elementary.
00:05:23:11 - 00:05:52:02
Unknown
That's right behind us. Did your grandmother ever share any thoughts with you? Any recollections of that time in history 50 years ago? Well, my grandpa did, because my grandma was no longer living. And, he said that they had worked together for some years. He went to school here to also, he said that they really didn't know that they were missing out on anything back then until they had integrated into, middle school or junior high.
00:05:52:03 - 00:06:11:12
Unknown
They used to call it. So that's just how it was. And that's something I think that. Do you think that that's really the general sentiment that your peers. 11th graders, 12th graders, high school students today? It's hard to really envision, isn't it, that some time ago and really not all that long, you know, people who are 50 years old, don't you?
00:06:11:14 - 00:06:33:14
Unknown
You know, the folks who are 50 or 40 were 60 back when they were your age. And maybe a little bit younger that that was the state of affairs. Well, you and I had a great opportunity to talk to a Supreme Court justice earlier today. Wasn't he phenomenal that Steven Brier joined the Highland Park High School? Students that I have here and myself?
00:06:33:19 - 00:06:53:16
Unknown
Here's a little bit of what he had to say to them. You know, it's not every day that you get to talk to a United States Supreme Court justice. It is my pleasure and certainly the pleasure of the students that I'm gathered here with to welcome you. Justice Stephen Breyer, thank you so much for joining us. Have a round of applause for the right.
00:06:53:18 - 00:07:15:14
Unknown
It is certainly an honor. And we understand that, the responsibility that you have sitting on the United States Supreme Court, not only with respect to educational issues, but regard to all with regard to all issues is very, very important. But specifically with respect to this event, can you put it in the context from your standpoint, the significance of the event in its dedication today?
00:07:15:16 - 00:07:40:04
Unknown
I think if I look at it from the point of view of a member of the court, I belong to an institution that had a great day in its life, and the great day in its life was the day when not me, but other members of the court decided. Brown versus Board of Education. Reason, from my point of view, is because it's central to the meaning of the Constitution.
00:07:40:06 - 00:08:05:20
Unknown
Now you tell me why that is. It's important because, like, I wouldn't be able to go to school with some of these people here, we wouldn't be going to school with each other. It really changed everything for everybody, and not just for education. It changed everything. And public schools, libraries, schools, anything, you name it. I agree with you.
00:08:05:20 - 00:08:24:20
Unknown
I agree with you. I think that it said the United in the United States of America we are equal. Yeah, we are a lot. Yeah. We the law respects everybody equal. Right. But let me ask you a hard question and you tell me. I think this is a hard question, but I see what you think and not everybody.
00:08:24:22 - 00:08:47:04
Unknown
Why is separate but equal. Wrong. I think it's completely wrong. Yeah, but I it's completely wrong in my opinion. Now you tell me why you think it was so wrong. All right. Well, I think that the separate but equal because of course it was an equal and. All right, that's the first thing. All right. First thing, it was an equal.
00:08:47:07 - 00:09:05:01
Unknown
Believe me, it was not equal. I can remember that. You know, I was I was when Brown was decided I was in high school, I was probably you were in and, everybody I lived in San Francisco, but every single person in San Francisco knew if you said equal, that was a joke. It wasn't true. It wasn't equal.
00:09:05:03 - 00:09:29:19
Unknown
But now, if you want to be a college professor, let's pretend it was equal. Let's pretend it really was equal. Now, if it had really been equal, which it wasn't, in your opinion, would that be okay? In other words, same amount of money? Yeah. Same. Every right. Same bill. Them same quality of teachers. Would that be okay. No.
00:09:29:19 - 00:09:48:03
Unknown
Because somewhere down the line somebody was going to get mad that they're not going to be friends with this person, or this person ain't gonna be friends with this person. And if it's always separate, then who's to say that this person won't get this job or they can't interact together? Suppose into your class comes a child who really is quite different.
00:09:48:03 - 00:10:07:15
Unknown
You've never seen a child like this before. Maybe he's from Tasmania, or maybe he's an Eskimo. I don't know, you've never seen anybody like this. And the teacher says, well, we're going to give you the same facility. We're going to give you the same crown. We're going to give you the same pens and paper and books, but just sit over there, please.
00:10:07:17 - 00:10:33:22
Unknown
And by the way, don't go near that person. You think that individual is being heard? Absolutely. Why are you respecting that individual? And if you don't get respect, the same respect is that harm? It sure is. By the way, if somebody is prejudiced against you, prejudice that hurt you, does it hurt him?
00:10:34:00 - 00:10:59:08
Unknown
I think so too. I think it hurts people who are prejudiced to be prejudiced. Now that's pretty abstract, but I just want you to see that there's a lot of harm here. There was the fact that it wasn't equal. There was the fact that it showed disrespect for one group of people. There was the fact that it fomented prejudice, which hurt even the people who were prejudice.
00:10:59:11 - 00:11:17:04
Unknown
Any of you going to be lawyers? I tried that earlier. Nobody wanted. Nobody wants to be a lawyer. I have a great pep talk. You maybe you take some time. I just and also you see why I think it's such a great day for the country. I mean, all those things that are bound up to you. I mean, you don't remember because you're too young.
00:11:17:09 - 00:11:35:16
Unknown
I was your age. I can remember, I can remember my mother one day she had a friend, who was black black woman, and they were discussing where they were going to go for lunch. And I can remember I was quite small. They were saying, oh, we can't go to this hotel because. And I didn't understand it, you know, I didn't really understand it.
00:11:35:16 - 00:12:01:19
Unknown
And they said, well, you got to explain these things. And, and I was probably, I was probably 8 or 10, I would guess 8 or 10. And but that was San Francisco. That wasn't the Deep South. This is what the cool thing is about going to law school and being an attorney and being able to affect the opinions and the conduct and the consciousness, hopefully, of individuals in our country.
00:12:01:19 - 00:12:04:18
Unknown
Let's have a round of applause.
00:12:04:20 - 00:12:30:23
Unknown
In addition to the celebration that we're engaging in here, what you see behind us at this historic dedication site, there are celebrations going on all over the country regarding this historic Supreme Court ruling. New York University, NYU in New York City is hosting a conference that is one of these many celebrations. The name of their conference is called Brown Plus 50 A Renewed Agenda for Social Justice.
00:12:30:23 - 00:13:00:09
Unknown
They have more than 500 students participating in a day long celebration. They're calling attention. And to that end, I am pleased to introduce my colleague, NYU Professor Pedro Noguera, the author of Three Schools and the American Dream. Pedro. Good afternoon, James. We're very excited to have court TV joining us today in New York City. We have a distinguished panel here today who's going to talk about their connection to the Brown versus the Board of Education decision.
00:13:00:09 - 00:13:28:05
Unknown
First, let me introduce, Brummett. Belton. Delaine, Brummett, back in 1951. Brummett, father, the Reverend Joseph Armstrong Delaine, helped organize the plaintiffs in South Carolina's Briggs versus Elliott suit. Thank you for joining us today. Brummett or Beebe, as he prefers to be called. To his left is, Bridget Brown. Bridget. Mother, Ethel Belton was the primary plaintiff in the Delaware case of Belton versus Gebhart.
00:13:28:07 - 00:13:57:06
Unknown
To my right is, Collins. Seitz. Collins father, Judge Collins Seitz, ordered two Delaware school districts to open their doors to African Americans, providing a precedent for the US Supreme Court's decision in Brown versus the Board of Education. And then to my left, we have Dorothy Holcomb. Dorothy was a student in, Prince Edward County, Virginia, at the time that the case of Davis versus the county school board, Prince Edward County, Virginia, was being waged.
00:13:57:08 - 00:14:22:05
Unknown
And then finally, we have Susan Tucker. Susan is the daughter of Esther Brown. Esther was, an organizer in, in Kansas who played a major role in Webb versus Kansas that led to the Topeka case. Susan, let me start with you and ask if you could tell the audience today, both here and across the country, a little bit about the role your mother played, in this, in this important case.
00:14:22:05 - 00:14:48:13
Unknown
Okay. Thank you. I was an infant when I was living with my parents in Miriam, Kansas, which was a small town outside of Kansas City. The adjacent town was called South Park, and there was a rail railroad track that ran between the two towns, which segregated the community according to racial lines. So the whites lived in Marion, the blacks lived in South Park.
00:14:48:15 - 00:15:17:17
Unknown
And through some people that my mother met, she became aware of what was going on in terms of school desegregation, because the white school board had decided to build a new $90,000 school for the white kids. But to leave the black kids behind in the Walker School, which was an old and rundown school without indoor plumbing. So she got involved with the rest of the community there and trying to demand that the black kids could get admitted into the new school, which involved bake sales.
00:15:17:17 - 00:15:38:08
Unknown
Speaking at churches throughout Kansas involved people losing their jobs. We had crosses burnt on our lawn and so forth, so it was a struggle that involved a wide number of people in the community. Insisting that the kids should be allowed to go to the new school. My mother, lived close to Claymont High School, to school in her school district.
00:15:38:13 - 00:15:59:21
Unknown
In fact, my grandmother owned her home and the taxes that she paid helped pay for the home. I mean, pay for the school. But she was denied access because of the color of her skin, which made her have to walk about a mile past the school to the public bus stop. She drove rode on the bus about ten miles to the city of Wilmington, where she had to walk another five blocks to school.
00:15:59:21 - 00:16:21:16
Unknown
And then, she took business courses, which meant she had to leave that school because the business, school was called Carver Vocational School, which is very inferior head. Just as Dorothy said, the school facilities were terrible and but that's where they took classes, their business classes at Carver and then she made the trip back. But with my mother.
00:16:21:16 - 00:16:41:23
Unknown
My mother was born with a number of holes in her heart. She had a very serious medical condition, which made it very difficult for her to get to school, you know, walk past the school. But yet she when my grandmother appealed to the state Board of Education, they still denied her access into the school. So Wright is right.
00:16:41:23 - 00:16:51:01
Unknown
So she, got in touch with Lewis Redding.
00:16:51:03 - 00:17:29:17
Unknown
I was six years old at the time that decision was rendered. For African-Americans, its symbolic impact is almost immeasurable and indescribable. Brown really marked the final hurdle to clear, in terms of at least getting the right to pursue an education and pursue self-fulfillment, probably the most significant event in the civil rights movement since the slaves were emancipated. Some of the individuals who were involved were heroes and role models for me, two in particular, Thurgood Marshall and Earl Warren, were on the road to being featured.
00:17:29:17 - 00:18:04:06
Unknown
And we're probably not as far down the road, but we're moving in the right direction. My name is Dick Parsons, and I am the chairman, the CEO of the Time Warner Highland Park High School students, juniors and seniors joining us here and Topeka, Kansas. We are live at the National Historic Site dedication, and we are honored. We are indeed honored to have with us Miss Wallin Gary, she is the CEO of the largest volunteer child advocacy organization in the country.
00:18:04:06 - 00:18:21:16
Unknown
You all know the name of that, don't you? PTA, the National Parent Teacher Association. Walling. Gary, thank you for taking the time and joining us. I'm glad to be here. This is monumental. Isn't this phenomenal? Yeah. It's like being on hallowed ground. It is. And I you know that that is probably the perfect word for it. It is indeed hallowed ground.
00:18:21:16 - 00:18:38:19
Unknown
This being the very school where Linda Brown, was trying, was going, was attending, trying to go to another school that was an all white school. And that gave rise to her being appointed one of the five planners and the Brown versus Board of Education cases. Oh, yeah. An exciting case. And of course I'm here because of Brown.
00:18:38:19 - 00:18:55:22
Unknown
I wouldn't be where I am today except for this Brown decision. Now, in addition to all the formal questions that I have to ask you about the impact on kids, what your organization does, I want to start someplace else. I know that you have a very personal story with respect to this case, your experience, as much to share that with us.
00:18:55:22 - 00:19:16:12
Unknown
Sure. I'm from Washington, DC and I'm the oldest of six children, and I went to a segregated kindergarten, segregated first grade. And then when the Brown decision occurred, I was in the second grade, and it allowed my parents to move across town to the white side of town because I could then go to school with white children. They couldn't even move before then.
00:19:16:14 - 00:19:33:15
Unknown
So I moved over there and had a whole different set of opportunities that I would have never had before. Now we're Lane, you're saying that not only were you restricted in terms of where you could go to school, but where your parents could live. Yeah, because if you could only go to the black schools, you had to live in the neighborhood where the black schools were.
00:19:33:17 - 00:20:03:15
Unknown
So of course, all that's changed, although there are some long term issues occurring now that we've gone full circle around Brown. But, because schools are back to being segregated again. But that's another issue. Oh, absolutely. And I think a lot of the reflection on the Brown case today has to do with 50 years ago, the status of our schools was a certain way was segregated, something that we talked about a few moments ago, something that these young people don't really have a sense of.
00:20:03:15 - 00:20:21:01
Unknown
And as we talked about, it's hard for you all to even get your minds around that idea. Right. It's difficult because that's not their experience today, but a lot of people say that our schools were turning to that set of circumstances. Give us your thoughts on that as well as returning to that, because we're into economics now. It's not so much about the color of your skin.
00:20:21:01 - 00:20:50:20
Unknown
It's about where you can afford to live. In Washington, D.C., where my family moved, we basically, could afford to live there. But now the property is turning again. And so people are coming back into the city, and that property now is four and $500,000. And so it's driving people out of the city. So the schools are changing again, all in what promises have been fulfilled as a result of Brown and what is yet to be fulfilled.
00:20:51:00 - 00:21:10:00
Unknown
What are the challenges that lie ahead? I think one of the biggest challenges. I'm a first generation college graduate because of Brown. No one in my family ever went to college, and it afforded me the opportunity to do that. But a white minister paid my registration fee for me to go to go to school because I'm the oldest of six.
00:21:10:00 - 00:21:37:02
Unknown
My parents didn't have money to pay for me, so even pay the registration fee. We have more college graduates than ever. We've come a long way. I would have never been the head of a great organization like the PTA if I had not been afforded lots of opportunities, and I think the point that the kids make about, getting out, meeting different people, you have to have the ability to mingle and mix with a whole lot of different people in the world to be successful, I believe.
00:21:37:04 - 00:21:57:03
Unknown
And I think Brown really helped to take us there. Do we have further to go? Yes. And as Justice Stephen Breyer shared with us earlier today, he came back and talked to us and the kids along that same line. It is not only the individuals discriminated against people of color, kids of color, but it is those who discriminate that it also hurts.
00:21:57:03 - 00:22:22:04
Unknown
Moreland here. Thank you so much. President of the National Parent Teacher Association. Let's give her a round of applause. Thank you very much. As you can see, while the struggle for integration raged on in courtrooms and government buildings across the country, it was also fought on a local level, in school rooms and on the streets. Here's a story of some high school students who decided to take their education into their own hands.
00:22:22:06 - 00:22:46:10
Unknown
Although Brown versus Board of Education's flagship case came from Topeka, Kansas, the Supreme Court's historic decision is actually based on a collection of cases from several school districts, and none is more important than the case from tiny Farmville, Virginia, where more than 50 years ago, some brave students set in motion profound changes that ultimately affected our entire nation.
00:22:46:12 - 00:23:32:02
Unknown
In 1951, education in Virginia's Prince Edward County was definitely separate, but it was far from equal. Black students attended Robert Bruce, a modern high school, Maine boarding School, was built for 135 140 some students at the time that I arrived to teach there. The student enrollment was 400 and some, so to alleviate that condition, they built the top people shacks and we had to go from one to the other without coats and hats and gloves in the winter time, and we never take them off because the buildings themselves were so cold.
00:23:32:02 - 00:23:55:16
Unknown
We couldn't be in them without our outerwear. We did not have, and infirmary teachers did not have a lounge. We did not have a basketball court. There were several things that we did not have an updated library of state of the art at that time. Neither did we have an updated state of the art at that time, the science lab.
00:23:55:18 - 00:24:30:13
Unknown
We had secondhand busses. They were always hand-me-downs. The books were hand-me-downs of. We've had other children's names and them, and we didn't have, a cafeteria. Repeated pleas for a new high school were ignored by the all white school board. So in April of 1951, modern students took matters into their own hands and walked out on strike. They only wanted a new school comparable to the white high school.
00:24:30:15 - 00:25:00:18
Unknown
That's all they wanted. The kids decided. This is my thinking, that, well, I've been doing it their way. We're going to try our way. And this is what they did. They organize this committee, and, they did it that way. And then we brought results. The immediate thought was how my parents would react to our walking out of school.
00:25:00:20 - 00:25:28:20
Unknown
But, once we got home and discussed it with them, they were okay with it because they were aware that we were in need of a change and something had to be done. The strike became the basis, a month later, of a lawsuit calling for the immediate desegregation of the Prince Edward County schools, and was eventually joined with Brown and other cases before the Supreme Court in 1954.
00:25:28:22 - 00:25:57:17
Unknown
Despite the Brown decision ruling that separate is inherently unequal, and the decision a year later calling for integration with all deliberate speed, Prince Edward County continued to drag its feet. In 1959, in a show of massive resistance, county supervisors refused a direct court order to fund school integration and shut the system down for five years, with profound effects on the lives of black and white children.
00:25:57:19 - 00:26:26:12
Unknown
She had so many families, and then it shattered the thinking of people in the, the tiered vocations and, aspirations and everything, you know, blinded people who didn't have to go out, didn't have any kind of weapon or to defend society academically. All scholastic education, some of the children were sent out of state and out of the area to relatives who fight for their children.
00:26:26:14 - 00:27:00:03
Unknown
They built what is known then as the Academy Prince Edward Academy to accommodate those white students who wanted to continue their education in the public school. I mean, in the school system in Quincy, in Principal County. Massive resistance collapsed following another court ruling in 1964, and an integrated Prince Edward County High School opened its doors. It would take decades for wounds to heal and for black and white students and their parents to achieve mutual acceptance.
00:27:00:05 - 00:27:30:21
Unknown
But today, black and white students are learning together. I'm very convinced that one of the things our children learn here during their 13 years with us is a sense of respect for someone who's different from himself or herself, and I think that's extremely important. I think I owe my education to those students who went on strike, because if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't have the education that I have today and that all white private academy set up to thwart integration.
00:27:30:23 - 00:27:58:18
Unknown
Today it is the Fuqua School and with an altogether different mission. Our mission now talks about, providing an environment that develops boundless individual potential for all people. One of our supporting beliefs statement says that diversity strengthens of school community and should be embraced. That is embedded in our mission statement today. The former public school, Mountain High, is a museum and stands as a monument to the students who stood up for justice and helped change the nation.
00:27:58:20 - 00:28:26:05
Unknown
But perhaps a more fitting monument to their courage is today's Prince Edward County High School, where every day all students black, white, Hispanic, Asian and others are not only learning together, but they are learning from each other as well. When the Supreme Court made its ruling in Brown versus the Board of Education, many communities had to find a way to implement that ruling.
00:28:26:05 - 00:28:51:21
Unknown
A way to integrate those segregated schools. Now, Charlotte Mecklenburg, that school district in North Carolina, pioneered what many know now to be bussing the urban bussing program first in the United States. It was a highly controversial program. It was a highly controversial move. And 50 years later, the question has to be on many individuals minds. Has bussing worked?
00:28:51:21 - 00:29:20:17
Unknown
Hasn't worked there? Has it worked elsewhere? Time Warner Cable in Charlotte recently hosted a debate on that very issue. A debate by local high school students. I think desegregation made a big difference, a positive difference in the lives of the people and the children. Of course, we couldn't have done what we did without the, without students pulling together and parents pulling together.
00:29:20:19 - 00:29:47:14
Unknown
And I'm proud of what this community is accomplished in the absolute certainty that they erased, horrible inequities that existed on up into the 70s between black and white schools. In 1957, Charlotte, North Carolina, the city school board decides to comply with the 1954 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that struck down separate but equal schools for the first time black students, a total of four, and for all white schools.
00:29:47:16 - 00:30:13:04
Unknown
One of those students was at Central High School, where I taught at that time, and I remember Gus Roberts coming in, as a junior, actually, and he went two years and graduated in 1959. This marked the beginning of desegregation in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg schools. In 1969, the real change federal judge James McMillan ordered all schools to desegregate and reflect the county's racial mix.
00:30:13:05 - 00:30:34:14
Unknown
The, the made school for a week so that we could get the students to sign teachers in flight busses here, and so that we could, for the first time, completely desegregate the Charlotte-Mecklenburg schools. Many in the community are shocked at the judge's radical decision. We can have integration, but it's going to have to come on a person to person basis.
00:30:34:14 - 00:31:01:06
Unknown
It cannot be ordered like that. We had bomb threats and we had, a lot of, problems in terms of literally keeping the schools open and operating on a regular schedule. Funds being spent on bussing could be better spent on improving facilities in many of our rundown schools, and putting education back in the school system. I think certainly most white people in Charlotte oppose judgment.
00:31:01:06 - 00:31:29:21
Unknown
McMillan board. And those who did so, in almost a violent way to threaten the judge's life if who demonstrated outside of town or, or he held massive rallies that resembled Ku Klux Klan, rally his, children. And we were gonna sit behind him come hell or high water. Not until 1971 did Charlotte begin to accept District Judge James Miller's order.
00:31:29:23 - 00:32:00:08
Unknown
The U.S. Supreme Court today upheld a pupil assignment plan for the Charlotte-Mecklenburg schools. In this landmark case, the US Supreme Court votes 9 to 0 for desegregation. Today's ruling says, in effect, that bussing and school pairing are acceptable means of eliminating racially identifiable schools. The results you saw in a school like, like West Charlotte High School, which is not a fine school, even during segregation, become even better during integration because it had more resources.
00:32:00:10 - 00:32:24:14
Unknown
It had it had some very affluent and well-connected white kids who whose parents agreed for them to go there, who then began to push for the kind of resources the school had needed all along. The best thing is that people of both races found out how prejudiced we were, and people began to teach their children not to be that way, because they'd stop being that way themselves.
00:32:24:16 - 00:32:37:10
Unknown
And the children who made friends when they were in the 70s. They are still friends nearly three decades after Charlotte begins to desegregated schools. The question is, does it work?
00:32:37:12 - 00:33:00:06
Unknown
Juan Williams, a journalist and NPR commentator, is quoted as saying, when you look at Brown, you are looking at a moment. So powerful it is the equivalent of the Big Bang in our solar system. There are few events in American history that continue to have impact. The Brown versus Board of Education have on us today. When the decision to desegregate schools was made, it was met with a great deal of hostility.
00:33:00:07 - 00:33:22:07
Unknown
And now, 50 years later, it continues to to brew controversy that does the question have desegregation worked in Charlotte? My answer to that question is yes. In everyday life, people use post de facto segregation by the company. They keep the places they shop and eat at and especially where they live. Resegregation in schools is a growing problem that needs to be addressed.
00:33:22:09 - 00:33:44:17
Unknown
In the words of Ted Shaw, head of the ACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund. When it comes to schools, we honor Brown in principle more than in practice. We live in an era now where schools desegregation is almost done, yet we're starting to desegregate and no one seems to care. Tell me before Brown v Board of Education how many what percentage of blacks were integrated?
00:33:44:19 - 00:34:08:09
Unknown
It was 0.01%. But we have to look at the ratio. It's steadily decreasing. And if we continue in this trend we're only going to go backwards not forwards. And that's what we're talking about in this debate okay. You say diversity isn't needed to imply desegregation. But by going by that standard in 1954, when it was 0.01% of blacks in white schools, wouldn't that technically, by your definition, mean desegregation?
00:34:08:09 - 00:34:26:19
Unknown
But actually desegregation is just like giving blacks and giving other minorities a chance when they were, put into those other schools and there was only 0.01% that were integrated, they didn't have the chance to go to those schools. Nowaday, you can go to any school that you want to with neighborhood school and in the choice system you can do that.
00:34:26:19 - 00:34:46:00
Unknown
So desegregation has worked. They do have a chance. Just look around the community around West Charlotte. You see that individuals have an equal opportunity to go to any school they choose, but if they're in these poor communities and they're not allowed to be bussed, then how do you solve that problem? The bussing isn't allowed to be used. Well, I think that's more of an economic problem.
00:34:46:00 - 00:35:10:21
Unknown
I mean, we aren't talking about economics in this debate. We're talking about the segregation. And because of the racist are able to go there. If a white student lived in the area around West, they would be able to go. Students are still segregating themselves while they are in schools that are so-called desegregated. At Myers Park in particular, black students eat in the in the cafeteria while the Caucasian students eat outside in the quad or on the picnic tables.
00:35:10:23 - 00:35:32:00
Unknown
And so even so, even though they are not racial tensions between, the students in schools, they are still segregating themselves. Well, actually, according to a study, at Boston University. De facto segregation is often the result of desegregation because students that have been around, different groups of people often want to retreat to be with their own races.
00:35:32:05 - 00:36:00:00
Unknown
So because there is de facto segregation, we can, assume that there is desegregation. Well, if you're using de facto your post de facto segregation, people are organizing themselves in the communities and not like majority of the time, these rich white plays, rich suburbs are predominantly white. So it is still segregated. Actually it's not, if you look at the US Census Bureau, they've actually said that Charlotte is one of the most integrated metropolitan areas in the country.
00:36:00:02 - 00:36:17:08
Unknown
So if you look at that, we actually are pretty well, integrated. Desegregation has worked. Okay. So you're saying desegregation is work, then how do you account for the 9.3% decrease in integrated schools? A percentage that was lower than in 1968?
00:36:17:10 - 00:36:42:13
Unknown
I had an opportunity to be on Capitol Hill to moderate a town hall meeting in Washington, DC weeks ago, co-sponsored by court TV and the Congressional Black Caucus. Let's take a look at some of the highlights from that meeting. The underlying question we are discussing today is what was the impact of Brown versus Board of Education upon America and her people?
00:36:42:15 - 00:37:14:14
Unknown
In my mind, at least, the answer to this question is mixed. On the positive side, Brown and public school segregation mandated by law, the advocates of division would henceforth be on the defensive. On the negative side, the years that followed Brown brought America riots, assassinations, and extraordinary efforts like what ordered bussing and affirmative action. White flight was followed by middle class black flight as a result.
00:37:14:19 - 00:37:43:00
Unknown
Route. Throughout too much of America today, public schools remain burdened by the de facto segregation of our time, a racial division that too often is nearly as pronounced as legally mandated segregation of half a century ago, when the Supreme Court declared what we all knew to be true in the field of quote in the field of public education, the doctrine of separate but equal has no place.
00:37:43:02 - 00:38:09:21
Unknown
It honored the highest of our highest values as Americans. The values of equality, liberty, and individual rights. Brown confirmed the futility of segregation. It recognizes the hint. It recognized the inherent injustice of judging people based on race. And it acknowledged that diversity is the strength of our nation. As your stories I know have illustrated so well today, Brown has been a success in many ways.
00:38:09:23 - 00:38:42:01
Unknown
Our country is more unified in the African-American and other minority have made great strides. But as I heard, my distinguished colleague Mr. Majors, speak when I came in, we have more work to be done. And the caucus is really asking the question through our bill. This new bill of rights is, is it is there enough courage now in the leadership of the country to finally say that children should be given if they're going to be tested every year in every school, as the president has said, he wants to do that.
00:38:42:01 - 00:39:09:00
Unknown
Why don't we test whether they have a teacher and a textbook? And in Philadelphia, the Education Law Center just filed an action, within the last two weeks, challenging the lack of, teacher quality, in the public school system in Philadelphia, in which, for the most part, you could go through your middle and high school years, without having a teacher teaching you math or science, or English.
00:39:09:00 - 00:39:31:23
Unknown
Who major or minor in that subject. But that's not unique to Philadelphia. The Chicago Sun-Times did a survey in Chicago. It's school by school. It says if you're an African-American student, you're 23 times more likely to have a teacher who failed all six of the basic skill tests on the Illinois teachers exam. If you look at the Baltimore Sun, they did a similar survey in Baltimore.
00:39:32:00 - 00:40:17:02
Unknown
This story is the same all over the country. There's nothing unique about Philadelphia or any of these other cases or cities or circumstances. African American and poor children in our country across the board are presented with less of an opportunity to learn in every way that you want to look at that question, what happens to children in schools is dependent upon, in many instances, the people who are in high policymaking positions, and in many instances, you have children in the same town, but one side of the town receives less, receives a lesser amount of funding, as opposed to the other side of town.
00:40:17:04 - 00:40:47:09
Unknown
So in some instances today, there is still separate and unequal situations that do occur because many of these young folks now, they can go to they can go to any college they want to go to. They the society, is, is opened up in a manner that it hadn't been opened up. And before. So for them to to take advantage of all of those opportunities that has been afforded to them, I think is just, just wonderful.
00:40:47:11 - 00:41:09:04
Unknown
You have just heard from some modern day leaders following in the tradition of civil rights forged by Thurgood Marshall and many others, though lesser known than his colleague Justice Marshall, Judge Robert Carter is considered to be one of the most brilliant legal strategists of his time. He was legal counsel to the NAACP and was the architect of the Brown versus board strategy.
00:41:09:06 - 00:41:17:09
Unknown
I have the honor of speaking with Judge Carter about the case and his many achievements.
00:41:17:11 - 00:41:53:19
Unknown
My name is Robert Carter. I was and lawyers and brothers for inspiration. And when I was arguing the case, I had no idea was to be regarded as one of the greatest cases. The time I, when I know that I know was important. I also was not intimidated by the fact that I might lose it the last year of my, time in the in the high school, the new Jersey Supreme Court ruled that, all facilities had to be available to blacks.
00:41:54:00 - 00:42:29:10
Unknown
And so we were in East Orange High School at that point, the in order to graduate from the school, the white boys and girls had the past a certain death. They didn't require that the blacks because blacks couldn't couldn't use the pool except on Friday after the 4:00 and schools closed on, I, read this decision that heard about, guidance.
00:42:29:12 - 00:42:54:14
Unknown
The next day when the white boys went down the pool, I with them. Unfortunately, I couldn't swim, but I was going to exercise my right to use that pool, and that I really ran into the very venomous, racial hatred as a man. And I came out of the room and I was absolutely enraged at the treatment.
00:42:54:16 - 00:43:27:08
Unknown
That's why I, was looking for an avenue to fight the discrimination. And, Phil host and, got into and then, they to they wanted me to try to see how I could expand the law against discrimination from the. So I was sort of Martial's assistant at the time. And what he did was, he was running around trying to keep people back in traffic.
00:43:27:10 - 00:43:47:02
Unknown
And so he left me to to develop the the strategy, the effort on the part of the NAACP was part on segregation, the theory being that then segregation is eliminated. We'd all be free.
00:43:47:04 - 00:44:20:06
Unknown
What really is not known about the decision that the nun had not, I can tell, has, Brown versus the Board of Education is a product of American legal skills. And in fact. That is the real significance of Brown because it removes the government from enforcing, segregation. So the purpose since 1954 can enforce segregation. You can enforce this.
00:44:20:08 - 00:44:55:08
Unknown
I can't discrimination. And, it hasn't met very much up to now, but the things appears. All I can tell you is that, I did a good job. But what I said, signed into law by President George Bush in 2002, the No Child Left Behind Act was designed to reform America's schools by improving student achievement and school accountability, with the goal of leveling the playing field for all children.
00:44:55:08 - 00:45:25:20
Unknown
The act set out to increase resources for disadvantaged students in underperforming school districts. Here's a little bit more about what No Child Left Behind has accomplished in 1954, in one of the most important legal decisions in American history, the United States Supreme Court outlawed segregation in public schools and declared that separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. But 50 years later, our schools still have a long way to go to ensure equal education for all.
00:45:25:22 - 00:46:03:00
Unknown
For too many students, the promise of the Brown decision remains unfulfilled. The vestiges of segregation remain in the forms of gaps that separate minority students from their peers. The research is clear that there are not equal opportunities for different groups of students. The, research is clear that there are opportunity gaps, and those opportunity gaps are in the areas of access to quality teachers, access to rigorous curriculum, and access to the resources that are necessary for the support systems for kids to achieve.
00:46:03:02 - 00:46:44:03
Unknown
To remedy this problem of a two tiered education system, President Bush and a bipartisan majority in Congress created the No Child Left Behind Act. This landmark reform was designed to change the culture of America's schools by closing the achievement gap, encouraging accountability, offering more flexibility, giving parents more options, and teaching students based on what works. The No Child Left Behind Act is the next logical step to Brown, versus the Board of Education is the next logical step because it provides the framework for this quality education and make sure that every child has paid attention to every child is measured.
00:46:44:04 - 00:47:08:00
Unknown
Every child is held to high standards, every child is visible, and no child left behind is critical to it is the next step to, the Brown decision. And, it's something that, absolutely must be embraced by this nation. It does give the tools that school districts and superintendents and communities need to assure that all children have the right and the access to a high quality education.
00:47:08:02 - 00:47:41:18
Unknown
With No Child Left behind. For the first time in the history of our nation, every state in the Union has an accountability plan that holds every child at every school to high standards. For the first time, parents and teachers will be able to work together based on reliable information on each student and each school's progress. A key feature of the new law requires schools to report achievement data on subgroups of students, for example, African-American or Hispanic students, not just averages.
00:47:41:23 - 00:48:08:11
Unknown
Breaking down the the information about student performance with respect to each group, how African-American students are doing, how Latino students are doing, how students from low income families are doing, and having schools report that schools have to report how the students in their school are doing. The district has to report that information district wide, and the state has to report on how the states are doing.
00:48:08:13 - 00:48:31:10
Unknown
This makes a big difference because now these deficits are visible, and when that visibility is there, we have to do something about it. Armed with new tools and with new flexibility and options to give struggling students the help they need, school districts have joined states and the federal government in the hard work of making no Child Left Behind a reality.
00:48:31:12 - 00:48:59:09
Unknown
As the new reforms take hold, school officials are already seeing signs of hope. The goals that are established and No Child Left Behind not only attainable, but, I think they really, you give a, provide an emphasis and a focus on the on the research, the thinking and, the talent that is within, the American education community, to solve some critical problems that have gone unsolved for, for decades, for hundreds of years.
00:48:59:14 - 00:49:22:22
Unknown
I have century ago, the Brown versus Board of Education decision opened the schoolhouse door to millions of students who had previously been denied access. Now, No Child Left Behind is making good on that promise of equality, working to ensure that all our nation's students are given the attention they deserve, regardless of their skin color, accent or zip code.
00:49:23:00 - 00:49:49:21
Unknown
In the spirit of the historic Brown decision, the teachers, principals, and parents who are carrying out No Child Left Behind reforms know that securing real equality in our schools is the best way to achieve a more equitable American society. Our school values serve the public. They create the public. The quality of the school, I think, makes a big contribution to the quality of the public community that it serves.
00:49:49:23 - 00:50:15:07
Unknown
If, if a school is a strong school and providing a good, solid education, it prepares citizens, to participate in a democracy. And when citizens participate in a democracy, that level of participation makes the democracy work better. Here to talk about the Brown decision and it affecting public education is Brian Jones. Brian Young and good looking is the general counsel.
00:50:15:09 - 00:50:36:23
Unknown
I knew I could make him laugh. He's the general counsel for the United States Department of Education. Give us your impression of Brown versus the Board of Education. In this light, we've had a lot of discussion on with these, high school students about how it continues to affect education today. And I think that's really one of the issues that we consider as we look forward.
00:50:37:01 - 00:51:02:23
Unknown
Well, first of all, I mean, it created an important expectation. I mean, what Brown said to us was that a two tiered system of education, was unacceptable. Under our constitutional system. But the fact remains, I think that we do have a great deal of work to do. I mean, you can look at the facts and in many cases, in too many cases around the country, we still do have something of a two year, two tier system, one that serves students of means, people of means pretty well, on average.
00:51:02:23 - 00:51:21:13
Unknown
And then one that, that does leave too many kids behind, in particular those who are the most socially disadvantaged among us. And that's the real challenge, I think, of Brown. And that's what your offices are working to fulfill and trying to inspire individuals throughout the country. Well, that's right. I as you said, I work for, Secretary of Education Rod Page.
00:51:21:13 - 00:51:41:05
Unknown
And one of the things that we've spent a lot of time on at the Department of Education over the last three years is working on a, a law that, President Bush signed into law called the No Child Left Behind Act. And the purpose of that law really is to try to, take a look at public schools and to begin to hold schools accountable, school districts accountable for the achievement of every kid in the classroom.
00:51:41:05 - 00:52:00:19
Unknown
You know, too often we've looked at schools and we've said, well, this school or that school is doing fine, because if you look at the averages, right, you know, across the, across the averages, kids seem to be doing well. But if you begin to scratch beneath the surface, you would see that oftentimes African-American kids or special needs kids or, kids with limited English proficiency are not doing so well.
00:52:00:19 - 00:52:35:14
Unknown
Right. And so this law for the first time in history, and this really is a signature improvement, does now hold school districts accountable. Our school, Highland Park, nearly was closed to closing due to the test scores. How does the No Child Left Behind work for our school, as well as other schools? Well, the way it works is, again, you know, the state of Kansas had to set up some standards just to try to figure out what it is that you ought to be knowing as you move from from grade to grade what it is that you ought to be able to leave school, understanding.
00:52:35:16 - 00:52:54:00
Unknown
And you're right, there are schools out there that have not done a good job of making sure that all kids are moving forward from grade to grade. What happens is if if over a number of years, your school is failing to make sure that you're making the right kind of progress, this this law will define your school and improvement school.
00:52:54:00 - 00:53:16:03
Unknown
Just the school that needs improvement. And all that means is that it's a school that's got some work to do in order to make sure that it's working for every kid, in the building. And if it's not, if it is a school improvement, that if there are all kinds of things that come into play, there are certain, accountability measures that your parents would have, they might be able to move you to another public school that is, achieving.
00:53:16:03 - 00:53:41:10
Unknown
Well, they might be able to provide you with some sort of academic support services. And then the school itself actually has to come up with an improvement plan, where it works with the state and works with parents to come up with an actual plan to figure out how it is going to begin to get the job done, to make sure that, every kid, like you and everybody else in the classroom is moving toward that proficiency model.
00:53:41:12 - 00:54:07:09
Unknown
In high school and elementary middle school, I experienced separate and unequal attending a wooden shack where there were probably more kids than there were textbooks. I was a junior in college in Jackson, Mississippi, and I can remember still boys and girls congregating together discussing this wonderful ruling that the Supreme Court, we thought Mississippi would just turn the switch and all of a sudden be a new place.
00:54:07:11 - 00:54:36:14
Unknown
Change in the law and change an attitude of people. Two different things the most in doing change was one of hopefulness that it brought to us with love and support from parents and from community leaders, we're able to endure and even prevail. I'm Rod Paige, the United States secretary of Education. We have spent the last hour discussing and celebrating the achievements of the Brown versus board decision.
00:54:36:14 - 00:55:01:09
Unknown
But 50 years after the legal end of segregation, how far have we really come? Look around your classroom for a moment. What do you see? Is it racially diverse or predominantly one color? Now think about some of the issues currently being debated in our courts. Does everyone receive equal protection under the law? Well, as many of our guest here today have acknowledged, we're on the road to equality.
00:55:01:09 - 00:55:31:19
Unknown
But it's a long and complex journey. As much as this nation has accomplished by way of civil rights, there is still much to do. The question we face is, how will each of us lend a hand? For more information and discussion, please visit our website at Dot court tv.com/choices for court TV. I'm James Curtis. I belong to an institution that had a great day in its life.
00:55:31:21 - 00:55:53:20
Unknown
I wouldn't be able to go to school with some of these people here. We wouldn't be going to school with each other. It really changed everything for everybody. What Brown said to us was that a two tiered system of education, was unacceptable. I'm 87 years old, so I'm not going to be one. I sure wish that I could be around to see what happens.
Description
For the 50th anniversary of the Brown decision, Court TV discusses the case.
Duration
57 minutes, 41 seconds
Credit
Court TV and the National Park Service
Date Created
05/14/2004
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