[Job 9768637]
Cape Cod National Seashore Advisory Commission Meeting
September 15, 2025

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	HEATHER>> I'm going to call this session of the Cape Cod National Seashore Advisory Commission to order. This is the 317th meeting at Cape Cod Advisory Commission to be placed here at the visitor center in Massachusetts at 1 o'clock on September 15th. Welcome everyone!  We have a few members here in person and we have a few online. A bit of an audience here today. So, the first order of business is adoption of the agenda. So, vote, Mark, we just got started. 

JEN I'm going to pull up my first slide with the agenda. 

HEATHER>>Typically we vote the adoption of the agenda. Does anyone want to move?  
>> Move to approve. 
>> Second. 
>> All in favor?  
>> Aye
. 
HEATHER>> Great!  The second order of business is the approval of the June meeting minutes. Did everyone have an opportunity to review those?  Are there any comments that weren't already made, that need to be noted?  Is Cheryl did receive the components and made the changes so if there are no additional changes requested, we can move to motion. 

SHEILA>> I move to approve the June 2025 meeting minutes. 
>> Great!  Second?  
>> Second. 
>> As amended, I guess we should say. 
>> Yes, as amended. 

HEATHER>> Any discussion?  All in favor?  
ALL >>Aye. 

HEATHER>> Great. Our next agenda item is report on the state of the park from our Superintendent. Over to you. 

JEN>> Before we start, just a little visual clean up. Adam, is there a way to pin the members so that they're at the top of the screen?  

ADAM>> They should all be pinned in the middle. 

JEN>> So when you're showing my slides, we don't see them. Well, if you can please pull up my slide deck. 

ADAM>> Please bear with me so I can share online. 

HEATHER>> While he's getting it going, I will just note for everyone's benefit after, well, I think, the main bulk of the meeting is hearing from Jen Flynn on the state of the park. We can address old business including any updates related to accessory dwelling units. We received the rules of order and then we would like to do a round robin report from members just on anything you would like to report to the commission but also, specifically sort of addressing future meeting topics. And then we'll have time for public comment at the end. Back to you. 

JEN >> Okay, thank you!  If we can advance to the commission business slide, please. And Heather, we can do it at the end, or we can do a quick update on the Federal Register submissions and nominations?  So, all of the towns that have members expiring in September of 2025, which is the preponderance of the town and county, all of those nominations have been received from your towns and all of them have been submitted. So, they are on the way. If you recall, all nominations need to be vetted by the White House and then approved by the secretary. We don't have visibility on where things are once, they're on the way but we haven't heard back so we have no reason to believe there was any issues, but we also just don't know. So that was Barnstable County, Chatham, Eastham, Orleans, Provincetown, well one for Truro and two for Wellfleet. So, most of the commission. 

MARK>> I don't remember seeing something from the governor's appointments. 

JEN>> Since you did them later, you're not up until March so we'll do it soon. So, the governor's appointments and then the alternate for the County and the alternate for Truro, are off cycle so we'll do it closer to the expiration date. I will just remember, the way that the charter is written, members are authorized, approved to remain seated even after their expiration point until they are replaced so we shouldn't be concerned about the expiration date but just know we're tracking it and all of the nominations are in and we hope folks can start to hear from the secretary's office about those. 

LILLI-ANN>> Two questions. Will you hear from the secretary's office before we receive the nomination?  

JEN>> Not necessarily. 

LILLI-ANN>> Okay. And the second thing is, I know the next meeting, according to the e‑mail we received from Heather, the alternate chair a couple of days ago, said that the next meeting is November 17th, however, we were given a choice of two dates. One was the 17th, and one was December 1st, and nobody said they could not make the December 1st meeting. But I said that the November 17th meeting was a challenge for me, and I would prefer the December 1st. I know people said they prefer the November date but there was nobody that said they could not do the December 1st date so I am requesting that we reconsider that and have December 1st as the next day so I could be here in this room. 

HEATHER>> So not everyone can attend every meeting. That's just a starting point. The way that the question was posed to the group was what are your preferred dates? and people responded that the 17th was almost unanimously, of the people who responded, the preferred date so the chair, Rich Delaney, selected that date, acknowledging this is the date that the vast majority of people indicated was the preferred date. Without regard, I can't comment but presumably without regard for how that accommodated or didn't accommodate certain people. So, at this point, my understanding is that the park has submitted a notice to the federal register for posting on the November 17th date at 1 o'clock and since Rich is not here to make that decision and he made it, I'm not inclined to direct them to do otherwise.
 
LILLI-ANN>> Heather, with all due respect, I did request that we continue the topic on the agenda at the superintendent's suggestion which we all said was a good idea, was Cape Cod character and we never really got to the meat of that, addressing that on the agenda or going around and contributing. I did a considerable amount of research within my community. I mean, literally, a couple of weeks’ worth of volunteer time so ‑‑ 

HEATHER>> We want to hear what you have to say but we will have to find the time ‑‑ 
LILLI-ANN>> This is the topic for the December meeting. 

HEATHER>> And I said, this is not the obviously meeting in which we discuss this topic. It's a large topic and what I am hoping to get to during the round robin is to hone in on the aspects we can talk about on the next meeting and those aspects you would like to present on at a future meeting. Cape Cod, Seashore character is quite large. Are talking about landscape, are we talking about how houses are constructed?  Wide range of things which focus on an aspect of the next meeting and then have plenty of time at a future meeting to hear. We would like to hear your interest, and we have no interest to shut is down. 

MARK>> Can we discuss Cape Cod character at the next two meetings?  

HEATHER>> Sure. 
		   
			LILLI-ANN>> Second!  

HEATHER>> Good, okay, so all in favor?  

ALL >> Aye

LILLI-ANN>> Thank you, Mark. 

JEN>> So we have two Federal Register Notices pending and we have submitted the next meeting, November 17th, at 1 o'clock, the primary topic being Cape Cod character, otherwise our now standard agenda, old business, new business, but the principle topic will be Cape Cod character and we also have submitted the federal notice for the announcement for the chair and co‑chair. Because the chair and co‑chair are representing the secretary's office, there's a little bit of a different track and they require the federal register notice of opportunities for people to apply so we have submitted that in May. We haven't heard anything yet. Those two appointments also expire with everyone else in September, but they have not been started yet because we haven't done the federal register yet, so those two register notices are in and pending and we're just waiting to hear back from the Secretary's office they have been approved to be released. 
>> Great!  Well, thank you. 

JEN>> All right so the rest of my time today, I wanted to take a step back and just talk really broadly about the park as a whole. So last April was our first reconfigured meeting, the first meeting I had the opportunity to be with you all at and I did a state of the park conversation at that meeting, but it's been a while since we have taken a step back and kind of looked at what is going on globally. I have quite a few slides but a lot of pictures so I will spend the next hour or so running through what is going on with the park operationally, what is going on with us in our communities and then of course, welcome a conversation but I will get rolling and then Heather, I would defer to you, if you want to do incremental questions or just run through. Whichever you decide, I will support. 

HEATHER>> Given it sounds like a lengthy presentation, it will probably make sense to have questions as we go along but if it becomes unwieldly, then yes. 

JEN>> So the first section is the operational section and what is going on in terms of our staff and operations and maybe a pause at the end of that before I move on to the community engagement, if we can break it up that way. So, this is just a reminder. I know most folks in the room are very familiar with our history, but I don't think it hurts to say, while we were established in 1961, we have 42,000 acres that make up the park. We have over 3.8 million visitors that fluctuates between 3.8 or 4.something but roughly they come to the seashore. There's 40 miles of wild beach with what made us so special and what made Congress and the President focus on this place for a National Park. There's some of the last undeveloped seashore on the eastern seaboard. As you know, we fall within six towns. We operate six public beaches with beach facilities. The beach facilities are always there. They are staffed by our employees during the summer months. We have the unique privilege of having two former military installations with each of their own challenges. And we are, of course, the site of the Marconi station and the transatlantic signal so we have a wide variety of natural resources, Cultural resources and stories that we protect. We are part of the National Park system so as members of the National Park Service, we are charged by Congress to do two principal things, to conserve the resources that we are responsible for, and to make sure they are available for the public good for public enjoyment so often folks talk about us having a dual mandate. I'm not sure they are conflicting but certainly it is a unique challenge for a federal bureau to meet both sides of the mission and often, it's about weighing risk to balance what that tipping point is. So how do we do that?  How do we conserve and allow for enjoyment here at Cape Cod.  We are organized in five divisions, five work groups. 
	We have a Natural Resource and Science program, Interp Education and Cultural Resources as part of that, is the building we're sitting in now, Salt Pond Visitors Center. We have a visitor and research protection program so those are the folks dedicated to law enforcement, fire, question had a facility management program, and then we had management and administration. So, our natural resource and science program, I often say, doesn't do science for science’s sake. We don't have the luxury of pursuing scientific interest nearly because it's something intriguing to us. Our science is science to inform management decisions and how we are best able to protect the resources in our care. 
	Within that program right now, we have the Herring River Project which you have all heard us speak to before. I have a couple of slides on that in a minute. Our shore bird management program is a well-known program locally and nationally because of the endangered piping plovers. There's a lot of our attention and national attention. We have an incredibly vibrant population here because of the protection that they have been afforded here and because of the habitat we have been able to preserve and then the other topic that you all heard me talk about, we have taken a deeper dive into is our water monitoring program so both surface water and sub surface water. We spend a lot of time and effort in making sure we understand what is going on with our freshwater lens out here. 
	
LILLI-ANN>> Can I just ask a question quick question?  So, when you're talking about science, I know when we were able to have field trips, we ‑‑ one of the field trips is about the collaboration of the other scientific projects that are happening thru partnerships with other scientists.  Are we still doing that?

	JEN>> Collaborative work?  
 
LILLI-ANN, I want to say, there were different scientific projects conducted with published so there's institutions and other scientists and some of the projects are really, really fascinating. Are we still doing them?  
		 
LILLI-ANN>> There were different scientific projects going on that scientists were conducting within the park? 

JEN>> Um, yes, that’s a very broad question.  Yes, we collaborate with other institutions all the time.  We work with partners very closely like the Center for Coastal Studies we work with multiple universities and scientists.  We issue multiple research permits to lots of scientists .

LILLI-ANN>> It would be interesting to learn more about those projects.

HEATHER >> There’s the annual Science Symposium next week.

JEN>> Well, there's a mention of it in two slides.

LILLI-ANN>>  I jumped the gun.
 
JEN>> So the two things I want to call out, that I should loop out to is the Herring River Project and specifically the Park Service infrastructure component of this. So, we have talked about it in the last twelve months but as a reminder, the Chequessett bridge in the foreground is managed by the town that dike is being replaced with a bridge with water culture structures that will allow salt water to flow above the bridge back into the Herring River system. Our structure the Mill Creek Water control, this yellow arrow on the right-hand photo is also a water-controlled structure but it is purpose is to keep salt water from going beyond that point in the creek. So, over the last year, we have been working on that project. 
	The water control structure there is done. So, we have a substantial completion inspection later this week and within the next few weeks, that project will be completed. Those gates are in. They are flapper gates so when the tide is low it flows out.  So, when it's high tide, it presses against the gate and closes them so fresh water can exit the system and salt water, is not allowed to come up the system.
	So, the photo on the left is looking from the golf course across milk creek, across the structure over towards the old Chequessett road, and then the other one is just flipped , what, it's looking at the same thing from the other direction, looking at the gulf course so it is a very substantial structure. And again, we're almost done. It’s on time  and we will be ready to allow the tidal flow to begin. 
	So, Mill Creek structure is almost done. We're very excited to have it finished. The other thing under natural resources and science that I thought you would all like be a aware of is the Science Symposium in this building. On September 25th, all of these titles were very long so I shortened them, but the entire program is on our web page. There's a series of short presentations so if you come in at 9:30, this is the order of presentations. There's gonna be talks about distribution and abundance of fish and invertebrates, Wetland Restoration after wetlands have been dyked, Identifying Historic Ceramics, Migration ecology marshes have been diked and historic and migration ecology. We're going to have a session on changing shorelines and around the seashore and a presentation on butterflies so that will be coming up in the middle of next week. 

SHEILA>> Does one have to register for that?  

JEN >> No, they ask people to register I think just to get a sense of who is coming. There's a link, I was looking at this morning. Thank you for asking it. There is an online option. If you're going to be online, you have to register so you can get the link but if you can't come in person, you can virtually participate. 

Within education, culture and resources I want to call out a couple of things. We have a very exciting project done in cooperation with our facilities program to restore the great room at the house with the period appropriate wallpaper that was reconstructed. It's incredibly beautiful so if you see tours of the Penniman house on the schedule, I would certainly encourage you to go and see it. It really is spectacular. Incredibly vibrant. So often, historic structures are black and white in images and when you get there, and this is not black and white, it is beautiful!  
	Our Interp & Ed program primarily does a lot of visitor orientation. When people come, what is the seashore? and how do I use it? and what is available for me and my family? We do programs here at Salt Pond and Provincelands in Provincetown.  We do lots of public programming some in partnerships with our partners like with Tuesdays at Salt Pond summer were sponsored and hosted by the Friends of Cape Cod National Seashore and guided walks and canoes and guided trips for the public to sign up for. This program is also responsible for liaising with the two federally recognized tribes as I'm pretty sure you're all aware. The Wampanoag, Mashpee and Wampanoag, Aquinnah
	We have been doing work with them over the last year and a consultation on a variety of topics and this program, this, work group is also responsible for the park archives and our museum collections. 
	We generally do about 500 interpretive programs a year. And 12‑ish thousand participants every summer. We're largely a summer program so that's an awful lot of people our staff interfaces and interacts with in a very concentrated period of time. Go ahead. This is also the program that is responsible for our social media and our web page updates, collections management as I talked about. Go ahead, Adam. 
	
Our visitor resource protection plan, which are the law enforcement rangers you see in the park. That's our life park program. This year, because of hiring challenges, we were only able to staff it at five of our beaches, so race point did not have life guards this summer. That was a swim at your own risk location. This program also manages the trams so getting the public from the large parking lot at little creek out to Coast guard beach. A big change in the fee program this summer is we went cashless. It was relatively smooth. It certainly saved our staff a lot of time physically handling money and it gave them more time to be available to the public. We were also able to put in four new fee booths for the safety of our staff. All of the fee booths now have air‑conditioning and as you know, it's only getting hotter here at Cape Cod and there's many days we had to close because the heat index was not healthy for them so now, we have air‑conditioned space so we're very glad we can do. Now, finally this program is responsible for our concessions program and our permitting program. 
	The big news is despite the hiring freeze, we were able to bring our New Assistant Fire Manager  ‑‑ this is Zach. He's really excited to be here. He's really happy to be on Cape Cod and he's here with his family and he comes to us with 25 years of wildland fire background with multiple agencies and we are really really glad to have him. We have talked a lot about fire. 

MARK>> I thought Acadia was going to handle fire?  

JEN>> That's not how I would look at it. We're in a zone of fire management so multiple parks are managed under an umbrella. Acadia, the fire management officer for the zone is duty stationed in Acadia and Zach is the assistant fire manager, but he is here. He is duty stationed here. He's our principal liaison to all of the local fire departments and has already been out with meeting a lot of people so yes, Zach is here. 
	We talked about fire, so I won't belabor the point. We have all talked about the fire priorities. Go ahead, Adam. We were able to do the burn at Fort Hill this spring. We're hoping with Zach here; we can continue to get fire back on the landscape and be able to leverage his in-person talent with the regional support. 

Our facilities program is everything physical, so all of our infrastructure falls under a very small but mighty team. So, this year they were able to replace the MARCONI stairs and a portion of the Marconi boardwalk. 

	You may recall, the stairs were washed away during that no-name nor’easter we had over four days.  Our in-house team built new stairs with funding support from our friends of the national Cape Cod seashore and are still there and have made it through a couple of storms so far so we're very excited to have the access back for the public. We are in the ‑‑ about to award a contract to put solar panels in at park headquarters and that's made possible by a gift from the National Park foundation that will allow us to offset our electric bills for our headquarters building. 
	
We are on track to demolish the Bartlet house above Coast Guard beach, I think that contract is almost awarded. So that should happen this fall. We're glad it will be done, hopefully before the winter storms come in. There's been a lot of road paving I'm sure you have noticed down here in Eastham primarily and then Race Point area improvements are just about to start.  So, at Race Point Beach, we're going to install two new vault toilets, and we're going to upgrade the changing rooms and we're going to move the lifeguard facilities hopefully by the the spring of 2025, we hope it has a new feel assuming it stays on time. So that's the big things in Facilities. 

And then the last program area is Management and Administration. It's the backbone of any organization so all of the things that any business has, any organization has, from procurement, to human resources, to property management and once again, we have a small and mighty team in our administrative office who is busily trying to close out our books as the fiscal year expires October 1st or September 30th. Also, within the superintendent's office, is the park safety officer. And the lands and planning office and lands and planning is one of our vacant positions so many of you in this room have interacted with me directly on those issues because current Cheryl and I are the lands program. 

LILLI ANN>> Can I just ask about facilities? I had a couple of questions, surprisingly, from the community and they question the people that work at the seashore. In various ‑‑ in facilities, you know, what rules they go by. For instance, like a plumber or an electrician or, like, are the state or town rules ‑‑?  

JEN>> Are you talking about code compliance?  

LILLI-ANN>> Yes, just what codes they go by and rules they follow. Is it federal?  

JEN>> It's federal so we abide by the IBC, the international building code. Which is the foundation of most state codes. That's the federal standard. 

>> And if the state code is more strict than the federal code?  Do you still adhere to the federal code, is that correct?  

JEN>> I'm going to give you a bureaucratic answer which is generally. There's some places that federal law says you will divert to the state on this topic so it's not a yes or no answer. 

LILLI-ANN>> Because some of the trades people have questioned me on that and I did not know the answer for that. 

JEN>> And you should direct them to me. Those are nuanced answers so we're happy to have that conversation, but I haven't heard any of those concerns. 

LILLI-ANN>> Well, I appreciate the fact that you have made that statement, thank you. Thank you. 

JEN>> So how are we doing?  Our target organization is about 68 permanent people, and we have 20ish, a couple ‑‑ I think now we're looking at like, 22. Vacant or permanent positions. We have the ability to hire seasonally this summer which is why we were effectively open other than the one beach we were not able to staff. We have targeted 110 seasonals and we ended up with 98 at the peak of the summer. That's always a moving number but we were almost to full staff. We had 4 interns, but we are functioning, you know, below what our target organization is for sure. We're still in a government wide hiring freeze except for small categories of accepted categories which are primarily emergency services, law enforcement, fire, safety folks so outside of that, we're frozen. We're not hiring permanent people right now. Go ahead. 
	So, the other big question is about money. The so we get our money in buckets is the best way that I have been able to bring my brain around talking about it. It's a complicated calculus. 
	
We have appropriated funds from Congress which is what Congress appropriates through a spending bill and generally it goes from Congress to the President to the department, and then down to the Park Service and then down to the park. Those are the funds that expire September 30th and if Congress does not appropriate an FY budget for the federal government, we will have a lapse in 2026. ‑‑ October ‑‑ 2025 for the 2026 fiscal year, yes. Thank you. 

	We also have park-based revenue which is the money Congress has allowed us to raise ourselves and I can go greater detail with these buckets in a minute. And the third category is partner and philanthropic support. Those are the funds we receive through our partners to help us do our work. So, as it relates to the congressional appropriation, that should ‑‑ I should have switched it to FY25, but we were about 8.5 million in FY25. We also had project dollars things that came to us things like projects, cyclic repair, rehab projects. Our team develops the project, and it's put in a national competition with all of the other parks and then those projects are awarded back to us. So, in 2025, we had about 8 million dollars we utilize to get other project work either completed or started. Go ahead. So basically, all of the things that people pay fees for. 
	
Our recreational fee program is operated at our six park beaches, and we collect the entrance fees and sell the passes. Of those dollars, we keep 80% at the park. All of these categories have rules that Congress has said how we can spend it. So, our recreational fee dollars have to be on direct on visitor support so things specifically on the things that support visitor experience and parks. Things like the lifeguard program. The entrance station staff. We can do trail work with that. We can do repair of the bath facilities. We couldn't work on our employee parking lot, and we couldn't work on the headquarters building because it has to be visitor services. 
	
So, for this recreational dollar, about a million dollars a year, that is very helpful. The ORV, the permit money we bring in is about 350,000 a year that is spent the same year we bring in and it 100% supports our ability for our program. So, all of that goes right into the ORV program to allow the public to be able to recreate on that  section of Outer Beach and Hatches harbor.
 
	The commercial use program, authorization program, those programs are pretty small and again, those phones are utilized to support the program. The so that just pays for the staff time to process those permits to oversee the permits and then the commercial use authorizations, we get a tiny fraction back from the folks who do commercial business in the park. We have that little bit of money there.
 
	The franchise fees come through the concession program, so we have two park concessions, and I have another slide in a second, but you'll recall, we have the Highland Links golf course, and the concession stand at Herring Cove and those business operate under the concessions contract with us so they're government facilities they occupy, and they run the business. 

	The leasing program brings in about a half a million dollars a year. I have a slide on the type of the leases we have. Then our housing revenue so we have a lot of park houses for our staff and seasonal staff. Everyone pays rent and everyone pays fair market rent. So, our rent is recalculated every five years based on the local market and last year, right after I started here, almost all of our rent went up 50 percent some or 100 percent. So as the local market goes up, so does our rent. There's a misnomer out there that folks get housing for free. We have housing so people don't have to come here and sign leases and find housing, but they absolutely pay for it. That money, we roll back into the houses to keep them, hopefully in good shape. Go ahead, Adam. 

We have a 10-year contract for the Highland Links Golf course, contract renewed with the Johnson Golf, their second term and we're in the process right now of awarding the contract for the Herring Cover snack bar next summer. And we put out a call for food trucks. We only got one for this Summer at Herring Cove. We got an ice cream truck, and we hoped to get more, and a lot of folks weren't sure on the return on investment would be.  So, we had one truck there and we did last year, because this year is not done but we had 80 special use permits that were issued and 26 commercial use to gives an idea of the scale of those programs. 
	
	As we lead to the leasing program, again, this is, I think, somewhat of a refresher but the Modern house trust has four park properties they manage, and they care for the property, and they make it available to the public. Some were short term leasing, and they also do educational programs.  Also, the Nauset Beach Inn in Orleans; this one is a government facility, a government building that is also under a lease. We have six properties, six opportunities; one property has 3 units in it. We 
do short term rentals for seashore buildings.  The NEED Building in Turo is under agreement with Hosteling International, everyone is very aware we had 7 dune shacks move to leases last year.  We started last year; not all of these are done.  These are the priority.  . 
	
Nauset Light Keepers House - The keeper's house is almost done ‑‑ all of that campus under one steward so the light house, the oil house and the keeper house will be back together again. We have three historic houses we're getting ready to put out a prospectus for, a business opportunity for so we have four historic homes we're looking for, long term leases for. The Provincetown airport is just about done. We have been working on this airport for a couple of years but really in earnest, for the last four months but it's on its way for approval and signature so we're hoping it will be available to say it's done at our next meeting. We're working on the former officer's club at the Highland Center with Payomet our partner there and the Peaked Hill trust, and they have four dune shacks. So, this is a good lease for us. Most of them don't generate income. The short-term rentals do, well, some of them. Some of them really, it's about having someone else occupy a structure and keep it healthy and maintained, recognizing that we just can't keep care and don't have the resources to take care of everything. Go ahead, Adam. 
>>. 
	I have two more slides on money and then I'll pause. So philanthropic support is a very important third leg. We are incredibly fortunate to have the Friends of Cape Cod National Seashore as our dedicated park, philanthropic partner. Not every park has one. This is an organization that can fund raise on our behalf. As federal employees, we are prohibited from soliciting donations, soliciting funds but what we can do is talk about our needs. And with the Friends of Cape Cod National Seashore, they can talk and look for ways to fill those gaps. I often talk about our philanthropic partners as the folks that allow us the ability to take what we do well and make it better. Like, take us from good to great. 
	
It's not intended to replace a federal appropriation, but they certainly help elevate us in places we would authorize not be able to engage without their help. So, friends of Cape Cod national seashore is our local organization. We also have received support from the National Park foundation which is national partner of the National Park Service. They are congressionally authorized and get an appropriation. We are also allowed to take; to accept direct park donations and that amount varies a lot from year to year. 
	
Often folks will do things like send us a donation for their workday or recognizing a loved one or something like that. And then eastern national who brought us bookstores, provides direct financial aid to the park. We generally use it to directly support the seasonal interpretive program, buy supplies and materials from be the interpretive program and they started last year doing a cash register round up donation so folks could say yes, they would like to add a little donation to their purchase and that's going to go towards the button book ‑‑ Button Bush Trail. Thank you!  

LILLI-ANN>> May I ask a simple question. So, the second one down, the National Park foundation, I know you said the solar panels were a donation which is fantastic. Wellfleet tried to do it years ago and for some reason it didn't work. I'm so glad it's going forward. Is there any way the public or the Seashore Advisory Commission can support the efforts of them, National Park Foundation, giving more donations to this particular park?  I mean, I don't know what is appropriate, what avenues are appropriate. 

JEN>> I would say all of those are appropriate. So, the National Park Foundation accepts donations earmarked for particular projects. So, someone could make a donation to the National Park Foundation, and they have. Go ahead, Adam. I have a slide that shows the way that all of the ways they are helping us which I can get to in a second, Lilli. Thank you!  

	So, the National Park Foundation coordinated 1.4 million dollars donation for the mill creek water control structure, the solar panels as I mentioned. They have done direct support for the Friends of Cape Cod National Seashore so the Friends, got a $75,000 capacity grant which is allowing them to apply that to their full time ‑‑ not the full time but their permanent ‑‑ the three they just hired so this is a capacity grant for the friends. 

	They also got a general donation this year from National Park Foundation. Our junior angular program was made possible by the National Park Foundation, which is a grant to the Friends, that the Friends have worked with the park to allocate, and we have a science communication intern annually that is a gift through the National Park foundation. 
	
So NPF supports us in multiple ways. Some of that is targeted, science communication intern is a targeted way for the donor to support the park and some of those are competitive grants we have applied for and have gotten. 

Back to the Friends page. And then the Friends this year, we have really just wanted to call out the Friends. I have already talked to them about how it's quite a bit but, they really are our community ambassadors, our advocates and supporters and they will go to speak places so they're an extension in terms of advocacy and having folks understand the breadth and depth of what the park can offer. 
	
This year, the three projects I want to call out is the Marconi stairs that was a huge undertaking that the Friends took last Winter. They have recurringly and historically supported our shorebird intern program and then lots of special programming this year. They make a film series possible and the Tuesdays at the Salt Pond possible, so we very much appreciate their support. Go ahead, Adam. 

SHEILA>> How many members if you know?  

JEN>> I don't know. We have a board member here but she's brand new. 

JEN>> Do you know how many?  

>> I don't. 

JEN>> I'm not sure, I want to say 500, but it sounds like I'm making it up so don't quote me on that. And then I'm going to start talking about community engagement and pause here. If there's stuff people want to talk about with money or staff or whatever. 

WAYNE>> All of the money given by various agencies do you do any publications about these things being done? 

JEN>> Somewhat, some things we do press releases around, like the Mill Creek Project.  We talk about our web page but, we will, we talk to the Friends about doing a ribbon cutting but they opted not to do it. Where it's appropriate, we certainly want to call out and recognize the support we get from our partners. The other thing that we are working on with the Friends right now is to update our donor recognition plan. So, one of the things that is frustrating for people, we're not a hospital and we're not a university. We can't do all of the things that some organizations can; to recognize donors but we can recognize donors and there's a small sign at the top of the stairs that recognizes it's a gift through the friends of Cape Cod national seashore. The so where we can, we absolutely want to recognize those folks that have gone above and beyond in supporting us. 

MARK>> The attendance of 4 million a year visitors, that's been pretty consistent for decades. 

JEN>> Since 1960. 

MARK>> I wonder how that's calculated?  If the city showed increases or decreases?  

JEN>> I'm not the right person to answer that question. 

MARK>> I think it's just a number and someone did an estimate and it is just carried through.
 
JEN>> We track it. 

MARK>> How do you track?  

JEN>> I don't know it well enough. 

LESLIE REYNOLDS>> We have traffic cams in various areas of the park so every time the vehicle goes over, it's like one visit. So, we have a lot more visitors that come here than we know about. We only track visits, right?  And then there's ‑‑ 

MARK>> So if there's three people in the car?  

JEN>> Yes, that's one visit. 

LESLIE REYNOLDS >> And then it's put into a mathematical equation, and the data is spit out in IRMA  software so anyone, the public, yourself, can go to IRMA and it stands for, and you can look back on our data.  Now sometimes our traffic counters break, or they get waterlogged, or problems or construction projects and we don't have them, then we do a 5 year…so we don't – >> So it's not perfect. 

MARK >> It's not every road; it’s not every person. 

JEN>> And they might be going to their house?  

LESLIE>> Or it could be us driving to work. 

MARK>> So it's an interpolation. It would be interesting if it increases or it has just been stale for all of these years, rights around 4 million?  

LELSIE REYNOLDS>> Yes, overall, it’s down, yes. 

JEN>> And the calculation was changed four years ago. 

LESLIE REYNOLDS>> We did some repaving at Salt Pond Visitor’s Center, so that's going to change it. 

>> Yes, they use that number to indicate the economic impact. 

SHEILA>> Just to follow up on Mark's so the Cape Cod Chamber has data on the National Seashore as well because they're constantly saying that, you know, the number one reason people come to Cape Cod is the National Seashore. That's explicit. The second is Heritage Garden so, either end of the Cape ‑‑ so, it would be interesting to see how they calculate that and get that figure, but I do know they were promoting it. You could tell the difference when they were promoting it on the European junkets‑‑ that sort of a thing. It just felt like a lot more people were here for a period of time. Now that we're used to it, I don't know if it increased or decreased. I think this year; we felt a little decrease but that's part of the reasons. 

HEATHER>> Is there any questions online?  Is there anyone who joined us?  

JEN>> For those online, the other voice is Leslie Reynolds who is the deputy superintendent. 

JEN >> So what isn't captured in all the stuff we just talked about is the work we do in our communities. Not really Park Ops, but it's something that we take very seriously and can spend a lot of resources on.  So, I just wanted to talk a little bit about gateway communities. So, there's a new Secretary Order, and I brought it in case anyone wants to read every word from this summer. It was signed last week of June,  entitled Strengthening Coordination with the Gateway Community. They want to deepen the collaborative planning, meaningful engagement and shared stewardship with the communities. And the first thing it required is every community and park unit to establish a Gateway community coordinator. That is me for the Cape Cod national seashore. As Leslie and I read through the rest of the order, we chuckled to ourselves a little bit not because it was humorous but because it's what we do. It wasn't new work for us. So not all parks were established the way ours was. Not all of our parks are required that the Park and community work together. We have a shared stewardship relationship that not every unit has so for us, it's not really going to change how we do our business. But I thought just to frame sort of the next piece, I did want to call out the secretary order and again, you're all welcome to read it. I have a couple of copies if someone wants to take it away. 
	I appreciate the secretary's intent but I'm proud that we're there. So, Mark already alluded to this but every year, the Park Service commissions a study to look at the economic benefit of having a National Park unit in your community. We're always a couple, you know, iterations behind so for 2023, it was calculated at 5.3 ‑‑ 534 million dollars in economic benefit to the surrounding committees. Go ahead. 
	
You guys already know that. Well, what I thought I would highlight was just, how we were approaching this engagement in a meaningful way with our folks so these are the speaking engagements I have had over the summer and thought you would be interested in the breadth of folks reaching out that want to engage with us and want to talk with us. Some of you have been, well, almost all of you in the room have been at a meeting but early in the summer, we were invited by the Eastham Chamber of Commerce to talk about the park. We appeared before the Wellfleet Select Board to talk about the Herring River Project.  The Eastham Part-time Resident Association asked us to come and speak to their members this summer, the same with the Nauset Heights Neighborhood Association; that’s in North Orleans. We spoke at the Friends of Cape Cod national seashore annual members meeting. Just in the last few weeks, the Wellfleet Conservation Trust asked us to come speak and then at the end of August, we also participated in a wildland fire preparedness round table at the Truro meeting house. So, I know you have heard me say before, but this is not the only public forum that people have to engage with us, and I want to encourage people to reach out and happy to hear what they're concerned about. 

SUSAN>> I had a question, and I know there's a lot of back and forth. How much lead time do you need, whether it’s Washington or?  If someone wanted, you to speak?  

JEN>> Generally a month or more is very appreciated because it can allow us to figure out, you know, the calendar. Not everything we need permission for and sometimes we do. Sometimes it's a quick turnaround but generally four weeks is comfortable for us to be able to get an answer. 

	JEN The members know about the Advisory Commission, but I thought I would remind the public as well. We were able to have five meetings in fiscal year 2025. Those were the various topics we talked about. We have to do an annual report that Cheryl will finalize after this meeting where we report the number of staff hours and the expense of the Federal Advisory Commission, so this is our summary to date, and we'll share the report to you when we submit it after the first of the fiscal year. I know we did a lot with the Federal Advisory Commission this year, go ahead, Adam. 

	I spent, we spent time in August brainstorming what we're working on with each of the towns because we recognize that, for example, where Susan is a member of the Select Board, she probably knows everything we're doing in Truro but may not be aware of the other towns so I thought it would be useful  for folks to see, this is where we're collaborating with your neighbors. 
	
So, in Provincetown we just had a site visit meeting with the DPW and other folks to talking about the expansion of the multi‑modal trail from downtown Provincetown, Shank Painter Road all the way to Herring Cover where it will connect with the bike trail that the park installed a couple of years ago so that multi‑modal trail project is going forward. That will give folks a continuous loop from town and allow people to stay off the road and access the beaches. 
	
We are working on an agreement to codify the use of public water from wells in the Highland Center and Provincetown has had an agreement with the park for the emergency use of water for a long time and we're working to try to put everything in place to allow for non-emergency use of water from those wells. We are a customer of Provincetown in town, the park facilities are supplied by the public water system so we're working on that. 

SUSAN >> That’s true with Truro also?

JEN>>  The agreement is with Provincetown.

JEN>>	We have a special use permit to the DPW last winter to allow them to store equipment in our North District Maintenance facility that had available space. As I mentioned, the Airport lease already. And then we have had some preliminary meetings with the climate, resilience, I don't remember what it's called but the climate resilience team, looking at Hatches Harbor, Herring Cove when it needs to retreat again and the Moors Road near Provincetown.
 
	In Truro, we have just started to finalize road widening easements for the Herring River Restoration project that will allow them to raise a few road segments. We are getting back to the table to work on a land exchange for the land that the Chamber of Commerce building is on, at the Head of the Meadow Road. We worked with DPW this spring to restore access along the beach across park and FAA property.  Then we provided some lifeguard coverage at the Head of the Meadow federal beach on Mondays. We all had struggles this summer getting lifeguards on. Go ahead, Adam. This is just a visual for the Long Nook.  This. It's actually very interesting project and it took us a little while to figure out the jurisdiction because the slope of the dune or the face of the bluff has some FAA property and some Park Service property so as if one federal partner is not hard enough, two Federal partners had to get together on allowing it to happen. 
	So, I found these Google images interesting to show where the road used to be which is now almost in the ocean. 

LESLIE SANDBERG>> Thank you very much. It's a comment. I just wanted to clarify something because I heard Sue Areson.  Jen ‑‑ you did a great job when it comes to Provincetown, but when it comes to water, we have, it's maybe an agreement with the Provincetown Water Department but we have a joint Storm Water Commission we work with. Provincetown and Truro members and the deal is Truro predominantly provides the water for Provincetown and Provincetown provides infrastructure. I just wanted to make sure it's clarified and give Truro it’s due respect at being a partner with us on that. Thank you!  

JEN>> Thank you, Leslie. And I hope I'm getting invited to a meeting soon and so I can get deeper understanding of that. 

LILLI-ANN >> I just wanted to commend the park and the Town for working together and that's always been my favorite beach. That is one place on earth which is totally in nature, and you see nothing man-made around can and just to be able to have access to it once again is just remarkable. You know, and I did find out years ago, that somebody pointed me to something where our Massachusetts President, John Kennedy, his wife, that was her favorite beach as well.
 
JEN>> Okay, on to Wellfleet.  we're working on road widening easements with Wellfleet as well. Any second, we're going to be talking to allow the road raising project to move forward as part of the Herring River project. We have a three-way land exchange. I have a couple of maps with the town. Just to have the Herring River Project.  . 
	We renewed the special use permits for LeCount and Newcomb Hollow beaches this summer, for portions of the town facilities and both of those beaches are on Park Service lands so we have recurrently issued permits to allow the facilities to stay open and provide access. 

	We have collaborated for a couple of years with the town. This is the third year on alcohol enforcement issues around the Cahoon Hollow and then the Herring River project. The infrastructure and the impact of lands, in and out of town, seashore, all of the time. The restoration will largely occur on government lands but certainly the preponderance of the infrastructure is on the town so that is just something we talked about almost once a week. Go ahead, Adam. So, as it relates to the land exchange with Wellfleet, the park will be conveying to the town, the section of park lands to allow the private driveway to be raised. So, if you're not familiar with road construction as I was not necessarily earlier in my life. You have to have a slope. You can't just bring the road up and then just have a drop off on the edge. So, in order for the slope to be safe, we have to grant some more space on the sides of the road to allow the road to go higher. So the map on the right reflects the easement that we will give to allow the drive way to be raised and then the road to be raised and then the map on the left is the proportion of land immediately adjacent to the Chequesset Neck bridge that will, at the end of the project, be a boat launch and a parking area so folks will be able to put kayaks and canoes and small vessels in there and allow for more recreation up stream. 
	
And then what is planned and a lot of this is on the roster but not done, not set in stone, so what is planned for this parcel to be conveyed from the town to the seashore so you can see it's adjacent to other seashore property and protects that shoreline of Williams Pond. Many of the components are on the town warrant for October there for Wellfleet, but that's the plan at this time. 
	
For Eastham, we're working on a project with the town on the cable road, multimodal trail. We had a public meeting on July 30th and while that project is on park lands, obviously, it impacts the community there. It ties in with the Nauset high school, so we have been working with the high school folks but that's a big project we're kicking off in Eastham this year. We're also working on a land exchange with Eastham. Which was initiated by the need to build the Nauset Light rear road so when the Nauset Light Road in front of the lighthouse fell in and was unsafe, the park permitted the town to build a rear access road, but we need to finish that had to do a land exchange and I'll have a map in second. We're also working on the town many things water; so, the town is working on storm water mitigations right here at Salt Pond along Route 6. 

	The town passed in their town meetings, sewer expansion or new sewer and we'll be a customer at Salt Pond Visitor Center of that sewer system when it gets here and then we are back in conversation with the town about getting public water to the residences within the seashore boundary. Then we always have coastal erosion. It seems more so in Eastham right now than parts of the park. We have a park house we're tearing town and a couple of private homes, because if they fall, they'll fall on the park beach so we're working to the town to make sure those things don’t happen.

 I don't have a slide for Chatham or Orleans. 

This is the cable road, multimodal trail. This is the planning map we shared at the public meeting. With the two potential layouts and I just thought, it would be good to show you a visual in case you can't picture in your head, what had that section of the park looks like. It's intended to go from this road all the way to the beach parking lot. Go ahead and thank you. 

	So similarly, here's some images of the land transfer in Eastham so the park will convey to the town, the parcel on the left that photo is of the shellfish shack right here at Salt Pond and the parcel immediately adjacent to it. It's partially on us so we will convey it to the town they will fully own the parking lot and their shellfish shack parcel. And then the map right is the survey map of the road put in and then the park lands impacted by that road. And then the town intends to convey to the park, to the public, 3 and a half acres undeveloped, off of Nauset Road that include a pond. Thank you. You can take the slides down, Adam. 

	So, for Chatham and Orleans, we just don’t have slides because we don't big projects with those towns. We're happy to but there's nothing sort of on fire, no pun intended, right now. With either of them. We are working with the Fish and Wildlife to look at boundaries in Chatham because the sand moves there a lot, and we have a meeting with our Fish and Wildlife colleagues this fall to try to make sure we're clear on who owns what. That is what I have to share for today. 

HEATHER>> Great!  Very good!  

HEATHER>> Thank you!  Any questions or comments on this last bit of the presentation?  It doesn't look like there's any. Wow!  

>> Okay, so it's 2:15. Our next order of business is old business. Does anyone need a break before we carry on or should we carry on?  

MARK>> It would be nice to leave early. 

HEATHER >> So let's carry on with the first piece of old business is the ADU subcommittee update.
 
HEATHER, They did not meet. There wasn't anything particular to address. During this last time since the last meeting. However, you all may have comments or questions you pursued at the local level or Jennifer may have something to address in regard to ADU. This is our opportunity to go around can and update. Yes. 

LILLI-ANN>> Yes, there definitely was something for the subcommittee could have met about but the subcommittee did not meet. The Wellfleet Select Board did meet and the Select Board received the memo that I think you have Heather, and I think the superintendent has, written by the town planner. And decided to take action on that particular item. 

HEATHER>> I did not receive it. 
.   

LILLI-ANN >> Oh, you did not receive it. Oh, I didn't know that. I thought that you did. I think the superintendent has the memo and the decision of the select board. 

JEN>> I watched the meeting

LILLI-ANN>> Yes, and then the Provincetown Independent had another call about it as well. Just very basically, the select board voted in favor of adopting the motion or voted approve a motion similar to the Truro ruling and that is what happened in Wellfleet, and I know that one of the select board members sitting here as well did not vote for it. I know there was a conflict of interest. For one of the select board members and they abstained but it did pass, three, one to one. So, I do want to make the comment, however, that I interest him and that I'm on this commission at the nomination of the select board. However, I also represent the people in that community and while there's a number of people in my community who do agree with what the select board did, there are also people who, a lot of people in my community who expressed the same view as the one commissioner sitting at this table today and select board member and they feel there should be no be development within the seashore. So, I do want to just report that. That is the state of ADU's  in Wellfleet and at this point in time, that is a situation. As I hear it, and as people are knowing that I have this position and knowing that I will make a statement today, are expecting me to make on behalf of my county. Thank you!  
>>
SHEILA Thank you, so if I may, Lily is right. How it was presented is that it was a discussion on ADUs and the seashore and ended up with a vote which is, you know, a board can decide to do that. I did not think we should have had a vote. There was no public comment. There was no public input. Lily was not invited, and it seemed very rushed through. 
	
I have heard a lot of comments from people they do not understand there was on the agenda, and I have a call to the attorney general or ethics to see if it really does stand as a binding vote because there was a lot of things that did not take place for a very important issue. So, I am waiting and I'm in a discussion with them and you know, a lot of people do understand that this is a very fragile environment. They felt, from what people have expressed to me and I do have letters personally sent to me, that were ‑‑ what is it all about?  Nobody knew it was on the agenda, so I think it's not just a dead issue in Wellfleet.  I think it deserves to come back on to the agenda just for public input and to decide it with the entire community and without any public input was not proper, I don't think. 

LILLI-ANN>> And I think it's my responsibility to forward to Cheryl for the meeting material today, the memo from the town planner and the vote of the select board so it is on record so that you have that as part of the record, yes. 

SHEILA>> And we will be having it on the agenda to make it formal for the commission. Mark?  

MARK>> Madame chair, the select board voted to put it to town meeting?  

SHEILA>> No. Just a decision made by the board. 

MARK>> That the board feels that the ADU ‑‑ 

SHEILA>> ADU expansion – 

MARK >> that would direct the permitting agencies of the town to?  

SHEILA>> To allow. There would have to be zoning. There's zoning and a special permit request and I'm not sure how much you can do. Other than just opening it up.

LILLI-ANN>> This is the vote and the memo. That is just submitting it for the record. Do you want to take a look, Mark?  

JEN >> When I read the meeting minutes, the vote was to direct the advisory commission representative to express the Wellfleet’s position was that ADU should be permitted by right. It wasn’t a particular action. It wasn’t on the warrant. I had heard it was going to be on the warrant in October, which is why I watched the whole meeting 

SHELIA >> And that is why I'm not sure what the whole vote is about. 

SUSAN >> So in TRURO, the vote happened at the last town meeting and since then the last town meeting the AG’s office has reviewed the ADU bylaw which is similar to Wellfleet’s. Made a few changes that did not address the by right issue. It specifically referred to square footage of ADU’s. Michael Fee is online and he's the representative for Truro on the ADU subcommittee. Beyond the AG's ruling, nothing more has happened in TRURO than what we discussed in our last meeting, and I don't know if Michael would like to weigh in on it or not. 

MICHAEL>> No, I think that says it all. We have a bylaw that allows ADU as of right in all districts including the seashore. That is the reality in TRURO, it's a little less restrictive than what is in place in Wellfleet. I don't think we had any applications for ADUs while this whole controversy has been boiling. When we do, we'll let you know. 

SHEILA >> My other comment is a lot of there is generated by the affordable homes act that allowed ADUs by right and since, because it didn’t specifically address the seashore one way or another, this is why this conversation came up. People felt, if I write to everyone which is just a wrong way of thinking about it. This isn't everyone. This is the national public park which is federal lands. We have since had the governor's office come out and clarify, it does not pertain to federal lands, and we had a letter from Ann Augustus, head of the seasonal communities committee and act, stating clearly this does not pertain to the national seashore. So, I'm not sure why everyone felt the national seashore was no longer a part of federal land or this was something that we could just ignore that. Maybe it's just a sign of the times, we don't like those rules, we don't have to do them. It comes from the top unfortunately but to me, it's a wonderful thing we have so, and we should go out of our way to protect it, so we have those places that feel they have been untouched like along nook beach. The there's a death by a thousand cuts if we allow certain things to happen that weren't intended in different legislation. So, I think this is an ongoing conversation. 

HEATHER >> Yes Mark?  

MARK >> So have these letters from the administration gotten down to the local level?  
SHEILA >> Well, you would think they have, I'm not sure if everyone has seen them. I think that Tom G said he sent the letter out, May 27th but I haven't found it, so I didn't have a chance to talk to him today. I was going to say, I think he's needs to resend the letters and let it be put back on. 

JEN >> Senator Cyr shared with me that they were sending the letters, and he sent me Eastham’s as an example and then his office sent me Wellfleet’s but they're all the exact, in theory they are all the same letter. I don’t know if you have seen it as a select board member.

SUSAN>> I saw Beth’s Pile’s memo.

SHEILA >> You didn’t see the letter?

SUSAN >> I didn't. 

HEATHER >> They have been sent.

SUSAN>> And they still have not obligated the seasonal communities regulations which were supposed to come out at the end of August that also have a bearing on this issue. 

SHEILA >> And I think that's what he was preempting. This is not part of the discussion of the seasonal communities. /‑FT. 

LILLI-ANN >> Yes, and I think that's very helpful for all of us to receive those. I mean, the e‑mail list. So that we are informed.

SHEILA>> I think that's great idea. I would vote to send those memos to the advisory committee. 

MARK >> Well, more importantly to the inspector, planning board and CPA. 

SHEILA >> Exactly. 

MARK >> If this is public information and it's already been distributed. 

SHEILA >> Right. They could get themselves in trouble.

MARK >> We have to close the loop and get the information with the decision makers. 

SHEILA >> And to the public. Great!  

HEATHER >> Leslie has a comment. 

LESLIE SANDBERG>> Hi, if it I just may weigh into it. In terms of seasonal communities designation, ADU by right are not part of that. That's separate. It's a separate section of the affordable homes act. I just wanted to let you know that. So however, this lands with the debate, I want to clarify that. And the seasonal communities regulations are supposed to come out in the next possibly two weeks is what I have heard from the people who are on the board to give you an update and that's all I wanted to just have a brief comment to let you know, it's separate. The ADU by right, those regulations have already been implemented. So, that's all. Good luck with it all, the fight. 

HEATHER>> So I guess a request to share the memos around. Can that go through Cheryl? To share those out?
 
	JEN >> If you want to send it to Cheryl, we can send it to the chair to distribute but we can collect them for you and then Cheryl, because of Rich being out of pocket for now, we'll share them both to Heather and Rich. 

		HEATHER>> And I can share them out. Ok, very good.

MARK>> Heather, is getting it to this committee the right conduit to get it to the towns?  

HEATHER >> Well, I'm not sure that's a rule that we can necessarily take on. But I agree with you. 

MARK >> Can it come from the superintendent to the panels.

JEN >> It’s not my letter. The letter went from the state to them.

MARK >> It's public information?  

SHEILA >> Right. 

LILLI-ANN >> Who was it addressed to?  

SHEILA >> The letter was addressed to Tom G. 

JEN >> They were addressed to all the town managers.

MARK >> All the town managers got it? Ok, So, it's public information at town hall right now. 

SHEILA >> Right. At least to someone at town hall. 

MARK >> So did the Wellfleet select board have a copy of that letter before they discussed the vote on it?  

SHEILA >> No, they did not. 

MARK >> So maybe they could revisit it.

SHEILA >> That's another reason why it needs to be revisited. 

HEATHER >> All right, any other comments on this topic?  

1:26 (someone in the audience)>> Can we open it up for public comment?  
>> Sure, there's just a question about ‑‑ 
HEATHER >> Thanks. 

HEATHER >> So just the next piece of old business is that the rules of order which we reviewed and voted on at the last meeting had been distributed just for your information. Everyone should have a copy of those. Any comments on that?  Then we can move on to new business which, I view it as the round robin or roundtable opportunity for the members of the committee to bring up news in the community that seems pertinent to the charter of this group. I think we can also focus specifically on the topics we would like to address at future meetings. I noted in the spreadsheet that Cheryl put together reflecting the last meeting topics that people wanted to address, in addition to the community character question, seashore character, there's a number of comments related to coastal resiliency, budding issues, sand migration, and I thought, if we might just expand on it a little bit. That seems like a logical topic for the next meeting. We can talk about the next meeting date too, January meeting or the next meeting. Because I think, coastal resiliency is a large topic. So, let's hone in on something specific we feel we can actually sort of get our arms around and contribute something towards. 
	So, with that, I'm happy to go around the table in the virtual table as well. I want to start other here. 

DAVE CRARY>> Dave, my apologies for being late today. For new business, I have been asked by people but not Eastham residence but there's some signage type things. I know signs are just redone and I think they're very nice but perhaps, we can bring up a content or suggestion. Sometimes placement. Specifically, what was brought to me, and this should be new business but there is some compendium of rules that the superintendent signs specifically, the October 1 dog and pet restrictions. But then the signs are taken out with a hurricane and there's not a permanent sign. It's kind of handwritten and causes confusion and someone complained to me, but that individual is not an Eastham resident. So, I didn’t call right away.

JEN>> We had a thousand signs, I think, put in last year and the park has been ‑‑ Leslie led the charge to review all the comments we have gotten so please just send them to us. We're going out and reviewing location placement and anything that anybody flagged for us over the course of last summer but inevitably things got in the wrong place. We're happy to look at those. We just need the location of the data. 
JEN >> If you guys think it's a topic, we're happy to address it in between meetings. We don't need to wait for a meeting with that. 

HEATHER >> Thanks. 

MARK>> Mark Robinson, a couple of things. The superintendent mentioned some houses at risk. The poster child of the bad behavior of the gut is now gone. 

HEATHER >> It looks beautiful. 

MARK >> But there's a number of places people don't see as much on the back shore of Wellfleet or Eastham, have come down or are coming down or on the list to come down in the near future. I'm just wondering how the park has a sense of that.  Whether they catalog given three foot or 20-foot gouges, how many houses in the next fifty years will be affected?  It's staggering to me. I don't think it's really known. As much as it should be. I never see it discussed in the papers such as they are. But also, there's different tools to use to deal with them so we have had some donated to us. There's one for sale right now for a rebuild. I think, just in knowing some of the protocols that the park takes, those situations, that how the outreach is conducted. It's such a scary situation to stand in people's backyards and think, how close to the edge can I get without falling off. I can't imagine having grandchildren in the yards. 
MARK >> So just a general sense of how it's approached is a phenomenon that is interesting. I could share some examples of the things donated to us and be how it works and people do get tax write offs. Some of them get building permits to rebuild and then donate the lot because the building lot shows the value for tax donation purposes. 
SHEILA >> That's an interesting fact. 
JEN>> Mark, that's a topic if we chose to pick it up. That's a great example of; this is not done by the park. This is like 1000% the town and the park working together. They don't have condemnation authority. The conservation commission has a role in that and building inspectors have a role in that. So, we are working really well and working closely with the towns, and we identify property that we're concerned about. It's the towns that have the authority that can take action so that would be a really good one to sort of, I think, talk about best practices about, you know, how are towns approaching that, what are the triggers people are using and when we move forward with the demolition of our house, I was seeking information about, you know, what triggers for you that a house needs to come down. It wasn't consistent. 
So, I think it would potentially be a topic that everyone can benefit, just understanding who has what lane as it relates to preemptive activity.
MARK >> Yes, that's all of the levels of government and the land trusts too. 
SUSAN >> The other aspect of that is cost. So, who pays?  Right down to the wire in Wellfleet. Who is going to pay for it. 
MARK >> Yes, that was pretty exciting. 
SUSAN >> And that's a pretty significant – 

SHEILA >> I think they were shamed in the end. Just to pull up on this topic, I walk Oceanview rd. a lot ‑‑ especially when the summer is over, you take your life in your hands during the summer but there's a house from white crest it’s right to the left and it's one of my favorites. For some reason, this hits me as an ascetically pleasing building and a pretty shed and all of this stuff but it's getting hammered and in the winter since no one is there, I take pictures all around and I see the erosion. It is getting really carved out from underneath and one time I was walking, and I took a picture, and it looked like it was over hanging, and I did send it to the DPW. What do we do about these things?  I'm nervous and this person is not here. The winter is here. Someone should maybe tell them; they need to take a look at it or whatever. And they said, they were aware of the house and that's all I know. 
MARK >> Maybe the towns should have a building inspector… 

SHEILA >> We didn't have one at that time. Right. 

MARK >> Yea, maybe one of them could be invited to this meeting to discuss what the town's role is. The most recent one in Eastham, Nauset Light Rd, when it was going to be moved back, the existing house was 24 feet from the edge. Some of that edge is ‑‑ it's really probably only 20 feet. 

SHEILA >> Yes, because it looks like it walks out but its scooped underneath and even white crest is like that. I don't go near the edge of white crest as you walk to take the path. They are moving the paths forward because that is all being eroded.

SHEILA >> It was really in the last year you can see the difference. So, I look at the homes and say, wow, it's really too bad. Not too big but it's just, what is happening. 

MARK >> Just to say how fast it does happen, I go to Chappaquiddick ‑‑ there was a house built during World War II, 1800 feet from the water’s edge and it had to be removed three years ago. 

SHEILA >> You know what really amazed me, we did ‑‑ I attended the fire presentation discussion and Truro, and it was you Dave that when everyone landed here it was 15 miles and it's no longer here. 

MARK >> That's a gone to Long Point or Monomoy now‑‑ right?  All of that sand. 

LILLI-ANN >> Yes, but following up on that, some of us were here, the storm of 1978, and try to explain that to people who are summer visitors, who have never been here, the respective is a little bit interesting shall we say but at the same time too, knowing where the park jurisdiction is, and where the state jurisdiction is, and where the town jurisdiction is on various issues, I think, it might be something that is a topic for this particular topic but others as well. 
HEATHER >> Yes, I think this is good. We have a handle on what we need to dig into. 
MARK >> I think it's character and resilience, isn't it?  
HEATHER >> It could be that. Most definitely. 

MARK >> I could bring in a couple of slides just next topic. 
HEATHER >> I see that Charlie has a question. Charlie, go ahead. 

CHARLIE>> I will turn on my video so you can see me. I hope you can now. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak. As you know, I'm an alternate. Larry Spalding is in Maine fishing so I'm serving as the member today. And I have not had the chance to discuss the following ideas with Larry which obviously I should do but in reflecting on ideas for future topics I want to start by seconding or thirding a future discussion about erosion and our responses to it. Not just in respect to homes but the broader impacts on the seashore that are being contemplated as a result of erosion. I suspect your science team is studying that and dialogue with coastal studies and others. And I think it would be a useful presentation for the advisory commission to understand the seashore's perspective currently on where erosion is occurring and where the risks are and in particular, and what impacts you to foresee to seashore operations going forward. And it might end up being more than one meeting discussion I can imagine. 
	I think this is one of the biggest issues on the cape obviously and we ought to give it due and contribute as best as we can so that will be my first thought is really to broaden the erosion discussion from the homes question to the larger topic. 
	The second topic I think is of interest to everyone which people have varying understanding of and as to which learning is occurring constantly. Is the whole topic, again, very important one of sharks and the question of, how the towns are responding to that risk and I know there's a working group amongst towns that does focus on this but I don't know A, what the seashore has done besides the installation of these kits in certain places that are sharply kits but what the seashore knows or is imagining as emerging technology that might be worth considering. Clearly the issue of sharks is one that has an immediate effect on development to use the term of our mission and I think it's one we ought to discuss in greater detail and get town input so that other members of the commission hear what other towns are doing as just general background. 
	The third question or idea that I have is the topic of whether the seashore could be doing more to expand concessions. I heard Jen Flynn's discussion of the attempt to bring food trucks to one of the beaches but as you know, a number of the beaches do not have any concessions resources there and I think it would be an interesting topic for the advisory commission to discuss the idea of expanding concessions that had different beaches, really for the benefit of the public in different forms. 
	Those concessions can take different forms is what I mean. It could be food. It could be something similar to what would be similar at Nauset Beach. Another beach which is a place where people can get T‑shirts and hoodies and beach toys and things like that. Others on this committee or commission may oppose all of that but I think it's an interesting topic for this, this might be the new revenue opportunity for this seashore. 
	The last issue may not be one so much for this commission's discussion and I simply don't know. But that's the question of whether opportunities exist for the seashore to acquire more land. I don't know whether the seashore has pursued additional acquisitions proactively in recent years. I know there's money constraints and all sorts of issues that relate to it. The all of us who had are supporters of the seashore and would rather see more land preserved than less, might benefit from a discussion about acquisition opportunities and what the towns might be able to do to support those. That's all I got. 

HEATHER >> Thank you. 

LESLIE >> I'm sitting in for Mary Jo Avellar today ‑‑ I have to go to a meeting at 3 so I appreciate you skipping and let me go. For sharks, Leslie and I were in a group that did a report so if we want ‑‑ a couple of years ago if we want to talk about sharks, we can send that report around as what was done at that point in time and look at what else is needed. I would also like to really echo and support talking about erosion. The shifting sands. Houses are very important but sifting sand, to see where we're losing it and gaining it would be very important to Provincetown, especially around the areas where there was a breaching of the dunes up by a place that we would like to call boy beach. I know it's not the name not because that's the local term for it. I'm sure there's other places and other towns have other things but to see it and understand that would be great. If you want to divide it up through a couple of different meetings, because I think it's a pretty big topic, it would be great. And beyond that, I just want to say, in terms of Provincetown and what is new, it's not necessarily new business. We want to thank the seashore for a great season that you did at Herring Cove and Race Point.  It was a great season, and we want to say thank you!  And I have a signage question for Leslie Reynolds, but I will talk to her privately about it and other than that, I wish you all a very good day. 

HEATHER >> Thank you!  
SHEILA >> We'll talk eventually, Leslie. 
LESLIE >> Pardon me?  
SHEILA >> Hopefully. 
LESLIE >> Pardon me?  
SHEILA >> I said, this is Sheila, you and I will connect eventually. 
LESLIE >> Yes, I look forward to that day. No problem. You guys take care and thank you so much. It was a great day!  

HEATHER, SHEILA >> Wait, wait ‑‑ 

JEN >> Before we lose you, I was going to do a cleanup. This is Jen. I just want to ask folks, if we did a presentation in October of 2024, that advisory commission meeting was on coastal resilience and we did, it was a big presentation and there was a lot about sand movement and what we knew about coastal erosion and bluff erosion. If I can ask the members to review it. Is that the type of information you like us to update or reshare?  What are we missing from that conversation?  So, if it comes up again, is it a reboot, like, where we are a year later or are there other areas you would like us to lean into. I would like to use folk's time well. 
LESLIE >> I think it's a reboot, I think we should never go over what has already been done, for us, the town itself, we have something we call the crab board or crab community, coastal resiliency advisory board, so we have our own town plan for it now. So, what I'm looking for is, we have what the town is doing but what does it look like regionally so an update of what you have done would be the best thing but that's my thought off the top of my head. 
SUSAN >> If I can add, I know the Cape Cod Commission have done a lot of work on it and also Truro, Wellfleet and Eastham have been involved in the vulnerability project, and they have done a ton of work. Obviously, it doesn't stop at town lines or seashore lines. 
LESLIE>> Provincetown is part of vulnerability but if you would like, I can have our staff come and talk about what we have done along those lines or maybe Sue, maybe we can get the people, someone who is talking about what the four towns are doing with the municipal vulnerability. It's the seashore and bringing in people from the towns who have done something to help out. If that would be helpful. 
HEATHER >> Yes, that would be interesting for everyone. So, we can hone in on who will present and the exact topics. Thank you!  
LESLIE >> Happy to help in any way. Thank you for your time today. 
HEATHER>> Since we're doing online folks, maybe we'll ask Tom if he would like to make any comments?  
TOM >> Hi. I have no new information from Chatham, and I have not received any new requests at this point. So, thank you!  
HEATHER >> Great, thank you, okay. So, lily, you're next. 
LILI-ANN >> Yes, so ‑‑ thank you. Lily Ann Green, Wellfleet, yes, I would like to endorse the shark topic. As you know, this has been a topic of great concern in our community and safety is one of the big issues regarding that. I did hear a great presentation by Brian L from the Center of Coastal Studies this summer at someone's private home. It was a small group of people. I heard things I had not heard before. I know the park has experts and generally speaking we hear from the experts here. I don't know if it's valuable or not to bring in other players shall we say?  I know the county did have a subcommittee. That was formed at one point. 
	It's not very active but maybe Chip R. can contribute something at the same time. Because you know, that could be the different kinds of things. A topic that the park could contribute to. I think it is under our purview to talk about this topic. I think there's other topics that people have been talking about. With fire being one of them. There's a great interest and it affects people from Truro ask me about it and I sent them to the meeting, and I give them that information with any updates about fire. Fire planning, there's a huge interest in that issue as we all know. So maybe some of these topics’ updates are helpful. 
	There's a bigger topic as we know, the administration in Washington has changed and we know the Secretary of the Interior has been charged with some of the topics that we have not been able to discuss in the past. I think it is, per our appointment that the Secretary of the Interior has the obligation to do the right thing. I would like to make a motion we write to the Secretary of the Interior either through the Superintendent of the Seashore or on our own to ask the secretary burg /‑PL to consult with us in regard to cancel the usher wind leases – optioned in 2024 for the proposed outer continental shelf in the Gulf of Maine in Massachusetts. Cape Cod National Seashore Advisory Commission, I would like to move that we write a letter because we are concerned there's a threat to our national security and defense. The active radar facility, which is our land based, first line of defense for the United States on the eastern port which is within the bonds of Cape Cod National Seashore could be compromised if the wind turbines are constructed off the National Seashore and addition the two statues. The first being the foundation document establishing the National Park Service and the second being the Cape Cod National Seashore foundation document which protects the view shed for future generations. 

	Furthermore, I believe we support the two letters written to the Office of the Secretary of the Interior by Cape Cod leadership in 2024, one by the assembly of delegates on 8‑30‑24 and one by the Cape and Islands Municipal Leaders Association on 07-22-2024 ‑‑ there's no bigger matter related to the development of Cape Cod National Seashore, than the offshore wind leases that were rushed through the approval process by the Biden administration behind the backs of the public which is in violation of the bureau's management and can compromise the national security and defense.  
	So that is a big topic and people in my town are very concerned and would like the secretary of the interior and or his authority to cancel those leases. 

SHEILA >>They have canceled, have they not?
LILI-ANN >>They have not been canceled and have been sold for 33 years. 

SHEILA >> My understanding is that wind was pretty much dead by this administration. Not sure what good that would do.
SHEILA>> Number two, I do think that we took a vote and that wasn't part of our jurisdiction. 

LILI-ANN>> Well, Shiela if you are talking about...(not audible) 
SHEILA>> I am just saying… (not audible) I am just recording what was discussed by this group.
LILI-ANN>> I don't think we voted ‑‑ I think, /‑RS what we said ‑‑ 

MARK>> I think this motion has been made but not seconded. 
SUSAN >> Yes, that is what happened last time. 
HEATHER >> Okay, agree. 
LILI-ANN >> Can we second to write a letter to the secretary of the interior?  He is looking at these projects and so if ‑‑ BOEM had done the right thing and engaged the public and they did not, but we the people are on this national seashore, and they did not do it. The 9 out of 10 people don't know about it. They did not inform the elected officials who were supposed to be informed they were task force members since 2019, that they were task force members, and they were ‑‑ to BOEM but they met with the Cape Cod commission staff and the Cape Cod Commission staff, yes, I have it in an e‑mail from BOEM they met with the commission staff, Heather. 
HEATHER >> Not on that. That's a separate issue. You have made a motion and as you did, several meetings ago, is there a second to Lily's motion?  
LILI-ANN >> Just, I have a draft letter. 
HEATHER >> We understand. We understand. 
HEATHER >> I'm not hearing a second. 
(WAYNE - alternate) >> I'll second. 
HEATHER >> I believe the rules are, do not allow that the alternate. 
LILI-ANN >> Is there someone online that would second this?  Tom, Charley?  Mark?  I think he's listening now. 
HEATHER >> I think what you're hearing from this group is 
LILI-ANN >> is that they do not want to take action. 
LILI-ANN >> Because we're – I mean this seashore; it is Cape Cod National Seashore and not Cape Cod National Marsh or Cape Cod National dunes. The reason why this is land is protected and Jennifer even mentioned it in a presentation, because this is a unique 40 mile stretch of shoreline, that when you look at the horizon, you do not see any industrialization. It is a horizon line ‑‑ protected. 
SUSAN >> There's no one who disagrees with what you're saying. What we disagree with; what I disagree with is the approach. I will not second and I will not take a vote to do that. 
LILI-ANN >> What about discussing it?  
SUSAN >> We have discussed this multiple times. To the point where now going over old ground. 
LILI-ANN >> This is a new administration that is listening. 
HEATHER >> I don't think it's relevant to this particular group. They have signaled that they're not interested in pursuing this topic. If you have anything else that you would like to address with this round robin relevant to future topics, we're all ears!  Specifically, anything else related to character that you would like to discuss at a future meeting.  Land based character of the seashore, whether it's the natural environment or the built environment. That is based on Cape Cod that we actually have some influence on. 
LILI-ANN >> When we look at 9 out of 10 pictures of the seashore, you see the horizon line, this is protected. This is Cape Cod character. This is what was ‑‑ this is why the intention of President Kennedy was to preserve and protect this 40 mile stretch for future generations. To lose that and see the horizon line industrialized, this is just, it's a ‑‑ you know, it's a violation of federal laws and we're in the position to do something about it. 
SUSAN >> We're not. We're actually not. 
HEATHER >> Everyone is welcome to write their own letters, and you have actually taken your time at these meetings to make it very clear, not just what your position is, but frankly, you have provided your fodder for anyone interested in them to take that action if they wish. So, I am going to say stop on this topic for now. 
LILI-ANN >> Ok, I understand that other people do not agree that this is what we are charged to do which disagrees with what I believe, in what I see in black and white, however, yes, as far as Cape Cod character is concerned, yes, I think there's a lot to be discussed about the built environment which I think, the Cape Cod Commission did give a presentation about. We started to discuss the built environment, but we haven't discussed the natural environment like shell fishing and culture aspects. And the fact that, the reason why so many people in my town do not want to see development in the National Seashore because of the beauty and the places they can go and feel like they're immersed in nature. I think that's important. To preserve and protect for our future generations. 

HEATHER >> So if we take up this topic which we have in the draft schedule register notice and we talk more about the built environment, than the landscape related impacts, is that a reasonable place to start so you can join with the landscape discussion at the next meeting?  

LILI-ANN >> If, in theory, we pick a date where I would be available to discuss that, yes. But as you know, I'm very interested in historic structures and as I said at many Cape Cod Commission meetings and also here at the Seashore advisory meetings, I'm very much involved with the historical society in Wellfleet. 
HEATHER >> You have opinions that you would like to share on both topics. Which would you like us to focus on with the next one and then we'll circle back to hear what you have to say on that topic. 
SHEILA >> You can submit them for the next meeting that you won't be at and then it's ‑‑ 
LILI-ANN >> The built environment is what I would request the commission take up at the next meeting. 
HEATHER >> Ok.

LILI-ANN >> Thank you, Heather. 
HEATHER >> Very good!  
HEATHER >> Susan?  

SUSAN >> For new, this is for new business or just the round robin?  
HEATHER >> Yes. 
SUSAN >> Both. 
SUSAN >> I did want to point out on the wildfire presentation that the Superintendent, Dave and Sheila attended, and I was there as well. There was a lot of work that went into that. When I reported back to our select board and this was our climate action committee in Truro, paired with the friends of the Truro meetinghouse, there were a lot of experts involved. The good news to me, I mean everyone is freaking out about lots of dead wood and piles and so on in the Seashore, and certainly they have a right to be concerned. But there is a huge amount of collaboration going on. They have people from Otis, the Department of Conservation, they have fire chiefs from each town, seashore and the county so there are a lot of people talking about this and making plans in positive ways so it's not all doom and gloom and oh my God, we're sitting on a powder keg. It's the message that I walked away with was, okay, we have a problem, but this is not like urgent fire drill. 
	This is like, we're dealing with it the best we can. It was a good presentation. My only criticism is there's not enough time allotted. It went over time. So, there was that. I commend the Superintendent for attending and Dave, I mean, there was a lot of people who knew a lot about the topic. I found it very informative. In terms of Cape Cod character, I hate to bring up a sore point because I know the Seashore doesn't have money but I would be interested to know about the structures within the Seashore that were taken, you know, by ‑‑ at the time of the Seashore or subsequent years because I know some people had time or a a certain amount of time to live in them. 
	How many of those are actually in workable order?  You know, I walk a lot in the trails of brown brook and Truro so for example, I look at the family, the Baker Biddle forum and I walk around, and I look in the windows and I sort of wonder about the condition of the condemned properties that the Seashore owns and what is the future of those?  What can be done to rehab them safely before they fall into disrepair. I know there was a lot of federal money given recently to tear down because they were in bad states of disrepair. How many are there?  Is there anything that can be done?  In some cases, it might be worthwhile housing that already exists. 
JEN >> You know, can I just throw it in there quick, specifically the Baker Biddle. That's one of the properties we're getting ready to put out for lease. So on ‑‑ oh, it's not. 
>> (Off mic). 
LESLIE REYNOLDS >> So on Jen's slide, there were three historic areas we're getting an appraisal done. That's with our regional office, that the ‑‑ all of the historic properties, so we will do RFPs for those three houses to the public and they will be ten-year leases. There's a lot of work that needs to be done in those houses but that will be part of the lease. 
	The Baker Biddle, we have a few facility projects around that property. Long term plan, we would love to lease that property out but that is not going to happen in the near term. Like, we're doing a new well there soon. So that is obviously an important property. Jedidiah Higgins same thing. They need appraisals first. 
LILI-ANN >> That to me is important to know. They're important historic structures and it's important to know, the jurisdiction of the federal government if the towns could do something, if you know, the independent people could raise money and you know, somebody could live in it and restore it or, I mean, how could we support the park basically, to preserve and protect these for future generations which is the mission. I think it's part of our purview to talk about it. 
JEN >> So I hear the question too, and if we decide to pick it up, we can start pulling something together. 
SUSAN >> That's great. I know everything is fairly limited. The other topic huge in Truro is water so I'm glad to hear about the non-emergency use of water and I know you have been working closely with the town just to sort of figure out how we're trying to ‑‑ Truro and Provincetown are trying to find a new source, a new well field source so that's of great interest. And the only other thing is, I just wanted to commend. You covered most of it in your comments but, the long nook that path has held up, I walk there every day. I just really appreciate the work that the Seashore did to make that happen because I know it was not an easy task, and each was packed again this summer and already. 
MARK >> Long walks from bound brook to long nook.
SUSAN >> I have two big dogs, and we need to exercise. 
HEATHER >> Thank you, Susan. 
SHEILA >> That's a new topic and I think a lot of people have touched on it. But I do want to follow up on fire because that's a big topic here. I live in very wooded area, and I have those nerves as well. So what I do think that the positive thing was, there are, well, the negative thing is, the federal government has walked away and said ‑‑ well, not walked away but they're not coming forward with a lot of resources and also, because of the numerous and huge expansion of property at risk in the western part of the state, we're not looked at as a priority. That's not how it's expressed, and I am just giving my own editorial either so I will change my words but, with the other thing, is that it is recognized in that there's many people who come together and they are working on how we are going to prevent forest fires. There was some interesting information from the Department of Conservation and Recreation, and they are there. The they are on the ground, and they are willing to go into the area, so you have several homes and very heavily wooded like my own ‑‑ trees around the property. How can you ‑‑ what measures can a property owner do to take and there's a lot of information out there. There's a lot of things you can request. I encourage people to get in touch with the Department of DCR and see, follow up on it more. Do they come out?  They can come out on an individual basis but because everyone's resources are down to try to get several properties they can look at in the same area, at the same time and you too, can help protect your neighborhood and the area. And the fire chiefs are on board with a lot of this. There's a lot going on that is not seen but it's all productive and positive and I do appreciate it all. 

LILI-ANN >> Okay, can I ‑‑ there's two quick things. First, I got flustered. Shorebirds and Water. Updates on those two, any or some updates?  

HEATHER>> What aspects of water? Access to new fresh water sources. Is that what we're talking about?  Or pond water quality?
SUSAN >> That’s hard. Those are two, they could be separate things.
LILI-ANN >> They are both important.
SUSAN >> I would prefer it if it were fresh water sources.
HEATHER>> That was clear, but Truro and Provincetown are working together to find other sources.
LILI-ANN >> but no I was talking about the other aspects of in addition to what Sue was talking about it. ‑‑ I know the county obviously is working with the park and those kinds of updates and there are other various aspects of it. 
HEATHER >> All right, well we have more than enough. Thoroughly. So, we're at 3:15. I want to make time for any public comments. Is there anything else that anyone wants to cover among committee members at this time?  So, I will confer with Jen and with Rich when he returns. About future meeting topics but it sounds like we're going to try to address built environment, character, at our November 17th meeting. We will take on landscape related character at the following meeting, date to be discussed, as well as coastal resiliency issues to be refined based on the comments we have heard today. Is that a fair summary?  
	So, turning to public comment, there were three sort of lengthy comment letters submitted since the last meeting time which being lengthy, I think the thought is to distribute them to the members so that everyone has the opportunity to review them. 
	Two of them address the multimodal path if I'm correct in having skimmed these ‑‑ 
JEN >> The cable road for the project. 
HEATHER>> The cable road for proposed project. Thank you!  So, for more information on that and then this last one, I did not get a chance to look. 
JEN >> That one just came in today and the general topic on that one is, wind. Cancellation of the wind leases. So that will be distributed so everyone has the opportunity to look at them. 
JEN >> Included in the meeting minutes in their entirely for the public so they will be online. It will be online with all of the other records from this meeting. 
HEATHER >> Now we're prepared to take comments from the public. The please stand here and identify yourself and if anyone wishes to speak, limit yourself for three minutes. We really appreciate it. 
(Audience member) >> I'm ‑‑ from Truro, a lifelong ‑‑ environmentalist and naturalist. I heard some things about the ADU, and I had some questions about it. Back when it was being brought up at the town meetings, the town board meetings. I wonder, and I never did quite get and you did give it to us but I didn't quite understand the National Seashores legal opinion and position on ADU’s and then I heard that there were questions about them and I then heard that Truro passed the thing and how can the town pass a law or a bylaw if the federal government says, or National Park Service says you're not allowed to do it. It's already black letter law so I just wanted some clarify on that. 
HEATHER >> Thank you, I'll preface to say and turn it over to Jen but say, we didn't get into all of the details because we're revisiting this topic. We have had some prior discussions on this topic. It is complicated. I don't know if Jen has an abbreviated response.  
JEN >> Yes. Two things. One, I would encourage you, we had an entire session on ADU’s, and it’s online. All of the recording of the meeting and all of our presentation materials and all of that. The thumbnail summary I would give you is, we have legal disagreement about what is permissible by the enabling legislation. Our attorney advisors interpret our enabling legislation and how improved properties are defined as being one single family residence on a lot. It goes on in the legislation to talk about accessory structures are okay. Then it gives some examples, barns, sheds, and it says, like, not intended to be inclusive. So, our position is that the definition that focuses on one dwelling does not allow a second stand-alone dwelling on the same lot. Some of the towns legal advisors have advised differently. So, it's a legal disagreement embedded in the enabling legislation. 
(Audience member) >> And my follow up question is, how do municipalities and the National Park Service, how did they resolve those issues?  
JEN >> I would love for you to give me a solution and that is what we're working on. Not to make light. It's a significant issue. I will stop here and welcome Susan to add anything, if I mischaracterize but, the risk is that the Superintendent, or the Secretary has the authority to suspend our ability to condemn a property as long as the property complies with the legislation and our regulations, and the town has zoning bylaws approved by the Secretary. So, when towns approve bylaws that are outside of what the Secretary would permit which is hard to define, absent the Secretary weighing in tomorrow to say yes or no, but the risk that entire town certificate and suspensions to be revoked. That's the ultimate tool that I have in the legislation that Congress passed in 1961 so that's the conflict. 
(Audience member) >> All right, I have another legal question. 
JEN >> I may not be able to help you. 
HEATHER >> We cannot necessarily answer all questions. 
(Audience member) >> The national seashore is ‑‑ I think I have the right word an abutter to the Welsh property, am I correct?  
JEN >> I would have to look at the map. 
SUSAN >> Yes. 
(Audience member) >> And I wonder what your responsibilities or your positions are in relation to being an abutter, you know, and saying ‑‑ they might be effective on the National Seashore if the Welsh property develops. 
JEN >> As an abutter, we get legal notice on any properties, any development on any properties near us and when we get those proposals, we evaluate them and give them when we give comment. 
(Audience member) >> And those are public comments?  
JEN >> Our letters are submitted to the planning board or whoever provides us notice and anything we submit back to them is public. 
(Audience member) >> Okay. Thank you!  
JACK REAMER (Audience member) >> Hi name is Jack reamer and I'm a Truro resident, former member, and I want to thank Superintendent Flynn and members of the advisory board who are here today and participated online and members of the public present and staff, of course. When I read today's meeting, it states the focus of the meeting accessory dwelling events and the report ‑‑ I heard reports not read. And I also heard there's a couple of, interpretations, one on the part of Ann Augustus, another on the attorney general (AG) of the Commonwealth and this information has circulated amongst towns but hasn't made it to the public. And I would like a copy of the information. I think it's important for the public to be involved. It's in the public's interest, especially when we need to have a shared sense of stewardship. 
	The park is doing its job. The town needs to do its job. There is information available to the public to reach out to its elected officials and say, what gives?  Are we doing something counter to support the initial purpose of the National Park here on the Seashore?  I'm just baffled why we would seek to solve some of the ills that have been created by over development within our residential districts, and then seek help from the Seashore?  It seems counter intuitive to me. I think Truro is best served when you're self‑sufficient and by self‑sufficient, you don't over develop and then seek a pipeline coming from who knows where. These are very important issues to me. I'm not speaking for just myself and people who came today. I'm speaking from it what I hear from others. When I go to the transfer station in Truro, and I meet people walking with the park. We talk about these things. It's very important and I really am concerned that elected officials aren't doing their job. That's all I have to say today. Again, I'm very grateful for the discussions I heard today. Very thoughtful. I hope these discussions are ongoing as been evident to me and shared stewardships, shared stewardship. That's an important mission. We need to define stewardship so we're all on the same phase here. Thank you for your attention. 
HEATHER >> Thank you!  
HEATHER>> Anyone else?  Any comments?  Anyone online?  
HEATHER >> No. 
HEATHER >> Okay. 
JEN >> No public online Cheryl?  
CHERYL >> No. 
LILI-ANN >> Thank you, Lillian Green, Cape Cod National Seashore Advisory Commission member from Wellfleet. I just wanted to say I have e‑mailed to Cheryl the motion I made, a draft letter and background material as public comment and I would like that to be recorded because I think this is important and I have stated before, I disagree with the other members of the Advisory Commission because I do think this is an important topic, perhaps the most important topic and I do believe that we're charged to deal with it and discuss it and do our job to actually ‑‑ with the Secretary and in matters of development and this is the biggest issue I have ever seen since I have been here since the 70s. Thank you. 
HEATHER >> I believe that takes us to the end of the agenda. I guess ‑‑ 
LILI-ANN >> Are we discussing dates?  
HEATHER >> Oh, yes, thank you!  So, the way we handled the next meeting date the last time around was through a poll. I think we had, as well as topics so thank you Cheryl for coordinating it because I imagine that was not a trivial task. And I think we had tentatively discussed having the next meeting in January. I would like to float having the next meeting in February, perhaps the second week of February and wonder what people's thoughts were on that. February as opposed to January. 
LILI-ANN >> Are you talking about February the 9th? That’s the second Monday in February.
HEATHER >> Yes.
LILI-ANN >> That is fine with me. 

SUSAN >> Fine. 
HEATHER >> Is this group okay with that idea?  
SHEILA>> I don't think I have anything booked in February yet so that's fine with me. 
LILI-ANN >> We have ‑‑ 
LILI-ANN >> Can we reappoint?  
>>. 
CHERYL>> MLK ‑‑ 
HEATHER >> That's in January. 
CHERYL>> What’s President’s?
HEATHER >> That's the 16th. 
CHERYL>> Great, thank you!  
CHERYL >> Those are the two that popped in my mind. 
HEATHER >>Exactly.
SUSAN >> Yes, MLK is the 19th of January and President’s Day is the 6th – Micheal says he is away all of February, I will be here. 

(not audible who is speaking) >> Okay. I am fine. 
HEATHER >> Thomas or Charley, do you want to weigh in at all on a February day?  
THOMAS >> February 9th is fine. 
SUSAN >> I would request if we're discussing ADU, we don't do it at that meeting because I would like Michael to be here. 
HEATHER>> It sounds like we should ‑‑ we have other topics we could discuss. We could ‑‑ I don't know how old business works; can we carry it forward without addressing it potentially?  Okay. So, let's go with that. 
HEATHER >> I think that works for Rich. I did not check that with him. I am available but I don't ‑‑ I don't want to ‑‑ you know, propose something if he's not available for it so pending his availability on February 9th, we look forward to that date and get into the details of the specific agenda. I think we sketched it out. 
	The second half of community character or the next part. 
SUSAN >> November?  
HEATHER >> November 17th, we're going to cover community character. 
SUSAN >> And then we're going to also cover it at the next meeting. 
HEATHER >> On the February 9th meeting. As well as coastal resiliency topics to be refined based on the conversation we have had. 
SUSAN >> And then the November meeting, we will be continuing because you need to put it ahead of time to sort of map what the next year will look like. So, we'll confirm the February 9th and other dates in the future. 
JEN >> Yes, we should be able to wait until November ‑‑ and then January, we're proposing and then the is good. 
LILI -ANN >> Are we thinking maybe April or June?  Is that?  Before the summer?  Does that make sense?  From your schedule?  
HEATHER >> Every other month, I know, from the seashore is a lot!  Maybe, a lot for other members as well. So, I would suggest at least three-month separation between meetings. Potentially move to three meetings a year but we don't need to decide it today. 
SUSAN >> I thought we had agreed no more than quarterly. 
HEATHER>> Agreed. 
HEATHER >> We started off with a bunch of meetings back-to-back because the group had not met in a while, and we wanted to get ‑‑ cover a number of items and get everyone up to speed. I think now we should move into a less frequent agenda, if possible, schedule. 
JEN >> Yes, my observation is, as we have packed a bunch in, the attendance is much slower, so I think it's not just hard on the park and our staff and the amount work we put in the meetings but it's hard for members too. 
HEATHER >> It is hard. 
HEATHER >> Agreed!  All right, so great. Thank you for that discussion. I think we're ready to adjourn. I would entertain a motion. 
SHEILA>> I motion we adjourn. 
SUSNA >> Second. 
HEATHER>> Very good. All in favor?  
ALL >> I. 
HEATHER >> Great. And ‑‑