Memories Podcast

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Katheryne Dollar, director of the Retired Senior Volunteer Program in association with the Natchitoches Area Action Association arranged interviews with senior citizens around the parish. The interviews were conducted between 1971 and 1974 by David Dollar. Recordings were originally aired on KNOC Radio.

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June 13, 2024

32. Haywood Wallace

Transcript

Transcript

Jim Collie (00:01): Mr. Wallace, welcome to The Memories Program. We're glad to be visiting with you. We hope you're having a good morning. You were telling me that you grew up in Natchitoches Parish. Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:10): That's right. Jim Collie (00:10): When were you born? Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:15): In nineteen-four. Jim Collie (00:15): Nineteen-four. Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:16): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jim Collie (00:17): Did you ever spend much time out of the parish? Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:20): Not over 18 or 20 days. I never have stayed out of it over 18 or 20 days. I drove trucks after I got up in truck days, and cars. Traveled over about seven or eight different states, but always be back. Jim Collie (00:37): Always back. Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:38): Always back less than 30 days. Jim Collie (00:39): So you've traveled widely, but you never spent much time. Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:42): Not that much time. Jim Collie (00:44): You were born on '04. Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:46): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jim Collie (00:47): Where were you born? Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:49): Marthaville, Louisiana. Jim Collie (00:50): Was that an old family home there? Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:52): That was the old family home, about five miles out of town on Route 2. Jim Collie (00:58): Route 2 out there. Mr. Haywood Wallace (00:59): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jim Collie (01:00): How large was your family when you were growing up? Mr. Haywood Wallace (01:03): Well, it was 17 children. Jim Collie (01:07): Oh, no. Mr. Haywood Wallace (01:07): That's right. 17 of us. Jim Collie (01:09): Boys and girls? Mr. Haywood Wallace (01:10): Boys and girls. Jim Collie (01:10): Were you the oldest? Mr. Haywood Wallace (01:13): No, I was the third one. Third child. Jim Collie (01:19): I bet they kept you busy. Mr. Haywood Wallace (01:20): Oh, we stayed busy all the time. All the time. Stayed busy. Jim Collie (01:26): What was it like growing up in a large family? Mr. Haywood Wallace (01:29): Well, it was awful good because time was rough back in them days, you know, and a person had to work for a living. They couldn't mess around. They had to work to get a living. Wasn't much money. Jim Collie (01:43): What kind of chores did the kids do then? Mr. Haywood Wallace (01:47): What do you mean? Jim Collie (01:49): Just on the farm. Mr. Haywood Wallace (01:50): On the farm? Jim Collie (01:51): Yeah. Mr. Haywood Wallace (01:52): They hoed and picked cotton. Cleaned up land ain't much. Girls and boys cleaned up fresh land, new ground they called it. Jim Collie (02:01): Everybody had to work. Mr. Haywood Wallace (02:01): Everybody had to work that was large enough, old enough. Jim Collie (02:04): What'd you do for fun? Did you have any games you used to play? Mr. Haywood Wallace (02:08): Well, we used to play ball and go fishing. When everybody got their crops rounded up, I'd say laid by, about July, some of them got it laid by by July the 15th, and on like that, well then the whole family, it was a pretty large family out there at them times, we'd pretty settle the wagons and buggies and horse-backers and foots would go on what they call a hole break. Jim Collie (02:43): On a what? Mr. Haywood Wallace (02:44): What they call a hole break. Fishing, you see. As they catch the fish they'd fry them and eat them out on the creek. Maybe stay ... I don't think we ever stayed all night with no whole group like that, but they'd stay all day. Do their cooking and eating and fishing out there. Jim Collie (03:06): So, those festivals at the end of the harvest season were pretty good for you. Mr. Haywood Wallace (03:10): That's right. That's right. As I went to say, we all stayed out on the creek and fished all day and cooked and eat out there. Everybody was happy, and everybody looked like get along fine, and lovely, and agreeable, and accommodating. In other words, they lived what they call a Christian life then. See? Jim Collie (03:39): Those were good times back then. Mr. Haywood Wallace (03:40): Good times. That's right. Good times. Jim Collie (03:42): Were there any other times big families got together like at Christmas or at Easter? Mr. Haywood Wallace (03:46): Oh, yeah. They got together lots on Christmas and Easter. Egg hunting and such as that. They got together. They had a real nice time, all of us. We all enjoyed it. Grew up to get mens and womens. Everybody got along fine. Jim Collie (04:09): We were talking before the show began about some of those big sicknesses that hit. We were talking about the big flu epidemic during the 1st World War. What do you remember about that? Mr. Haywood Wallace (04:19): Well, I can remember when the boys was drafted in there. I believe the first that was drafted in there must've been about ... war broke out in 1917, must've been about in the latter part of 1917 or the first of 1918. Jim Collie (04:40): You were about 13 years old then. Mr. Haywood Wallace (04:41): About 13 years old when she broke out. I reckon about '18, the latter part when the flu broke out, when it hit here. It was overseas. A lot of boys died over there. I believe it was 1919 when they all came back home, but a lot of them wasn't able to get back. See, they died over there. Jim Collie (05:14): What was it like here? Was everybody sick? Mr. Haywood Wallace (05:17): Oh, yeah. There was lots of sickness here. Lots of sickness. As I told you, up there where I was raised at, I don't know nary a family that didn't have it, some in their family or all of them in their family. Jim Collie (05:30): Did all the families lose somebody during that epidemic? Mr. Haywood Wallace (05:33): Well, yeah. It was a few died in that time up there, but most of them recovered. Jim Collie (05:39): Did you come down sick? Mr. Haywood Wallace (05:41): No, I never did. It was just two large-size boys in the community I could remember that didn't come down, and that was me and one of my cousins, would be a-carrying. We rode horseback every day carrying them milk, and going to the store, getting medicine, and getting wood, and assisting them in different ways. Any way we could, I'd say it that way. Jim Collie (06:10): What did you do for the flu? Just keep inside and try to keep your strength up, or was there a medicine that seemed to work? Mr. Haywood Wallace (06:17): Well now, best I can tell the biggest thing they could do was keep inside and keep warm, used that home remedy as much as they could because doctors were scarce. They didn't have no doctors much like they have now. He got around to all of them he could and done what he could, but- Jim Collie (06:41): Do you remember who the doctor was then? Mr. Haywood Wallace (06:42): Dr. Patterson. Dr. Patterson and Dr. Glass. We had two doctors pretty close. Dr. Glass lived at Robeline. Jim Collie (06:54): So, they tried to see everybody. Mr. Haywood Wallace (06:55): They tried all they could to see everybody, but in the horse days and buggies and service, a lot of them you'd have to go get them to see Dr. Jordan now. We never did use him for our doctor, but different ones all around said Morris Bray. They used him and they had to go get him, see. He was pretty old and couldn't use his own transportation, and you had to go pick him up and bring him and carry him back. Jim Collie (07:28): Carry him to. Mr. Haywood Wallace (07:28): Mm-hmm (affirmative). And then a lot of places, the road was so bad until you'd have to take a horse and go out and meet him on the road as far as he could go and let him ride in to the home. Jim Collie (07:43): It's hard to believe those were times like that, but- Mr. Haywood Wallace (07:45): That's right. Jim Collie (07:46): ... we sure don't have that kind of thing now. Mr. Haywood Wallace (07:48): That's right. Jim Collie (07:49): With roads, cars, and stuff. Mr. Haywood Wallace (07:52): No, we have good roads now. But back in them times, we had some bad roads and rough roads. Other words, the creeks would get under and water be standing for half a mile over the highways, back in them times. Jim Collie (08:08): We're going to have to take a break right now for our sponsors, but we'll be back in just a minute after this word from People's Bank and Trust. This is The Memories Program, and this morning we're visiting with Mr. Haywood Wallace. This is Jim [Collie 00:08:25]. Mr. Wallace, we were talking about grist mills during this last commercial break. You said you remember a time before they had grist mills. What was that? Mr. Haywood Wallace (08:35): Oh, yeah. I was raised up in the house with my mother and father and my grandmother ever since I could remember. She lived with us until I was grown and married she was still in the house with us. She had what they called a gritter. She could make them. Take a piece of tin and punch nails in them. Take a nail and punch holes in it. Before the corn got hard enough to carry to the mill, she could make two or three of them. Have us kids out there you see, gritting meal. Turn that thing over, bottom up, put your hole one way and turn it over, and get that corn before it was hard enough to carry to the mill and shell, and just grit that ... Jim Collie (09:24): So, you were a grist mill. Mr. Haywood Wallace (09:24): Grist mill. Jim Collie (09:26): That's right. They didn't have to carry it. Mr. Haywood Wallace (09:28): That's right. That's right. We gritted many meals of bread to make cornbread out of. Jim Collie (09:35): I think a lot of country folk made do on their own real well before mills and stores and things developed. Mr. Haywood Wallace (09:42): That's right. Then she, on up when the corn got hard, we'd go to the mill. She would make lye corn. Jim Collie (09:54): How do you do that? Mr. Haywood Wallace (09:56): Well now, she would grip her ... I don't know. Take ashes in a big barrel and sit it under the leak of the house. She burnt wood. Had plenty of ashes, and she'd put it in a barrel and let that rain drip in there. Well, somehow or another them ashes would get strong enough that they called it lye. Just concentrated lye what they buy in the store. It'd be strong. She'd take that in some way, and put it in that corn and all that husk would come off of it. Course you can by lye corn now, but it wasn't no such as lye corn as what they made. Jim Collie (10:38): Now do I call that hominy? Mr. Haywood Wallace (10:38): Hominy. That was the best to be sure in them times. Jim Collie (10:44): I bet you that was quite a treat. Mr. Haywood Wallace (10:45): That's right. Sure it was. Sure it was. Then on up when we left that, we had peas and corn and stuff to pick. We used to beat them out with a paddle. Put them in a sack and beat the peas out. But my daddy got hold of one of them big pea thrashers, and we'd thrash them out by the bushel. Jim Collie (11:15): Now what would that do? That'd just bring the pea out of the pod? Mr. Haywood Wallace (11:18): Yeah. You put them peas in there whole and all, you see, and it threw the hulls one way and the peas go another way. When they come out there, they'd be clean. See? We'd thrash them that-a-way by the 100 bushels because we raised plenty of them, you see. Jim Collie (11:36): Then take those in to sell them? Mr. Haywood Wallace (11:38): Well, they sold some of them, and then we'd eat them. You see, back in them times, didn't have no boxes to put them in like we do now, freeze them or bags or nothing. Just you shelled them dried peas, and they was good. See? Jim Collie (11:54): I bet good old fresh peas you can't get much anymore. Mr. Haywood Wallace (11:56): That's right. Jim Collie (11:57): Where would you go to sell those if you were going to sell some? Mr. Haywood Wallace (12:00): Well, they'd sell them to different stores. People would buy them for seed and for eating, too. They'd sell them in different stores. You'd have to be your own marketer for it. Jim Collie (12:17): We just got just a little time left. I want to see if you can remember your first trip into Natchitoches. Mr. Haywood Wallace (12:23): My first trip into Natchitoches? Jim Collie (12:25): I bet you were very young. Mr. Haywood Wallace (12:26): Well, let me see now if I can remember that. I believe I can. It must've been in about 1915, I believe, when my daddy brought me down on a horse, behind him on a horse. I used to travel a lot with him on a horse. Ride behind him or in front of him. When I grew up and got old enough to rein one, well, he bought me a horse and saddle. I used to go around with him to most everywhere he went. I'd say it that way, most everywhere he went, I'd be with him on my own horse. But I'll tell you, I was about 10 years old I'd say when- Jim Collie (13:10): I bet that was an exciting trip for a little boy. Mr. Haywood Wallace (13:12): It sure was. It sure was. Jim Collie (13:13): You'd always heard about it and never seen it. Mr. Haywood Wallace (13:16): That's right. That's right. It was an exciting trip. It would make you mighty tired and sore- Jim Collie (13:27): I bet it would. Mr. Haywood Wallace (13:28): ... to ride a horse that distance. A fellow didn't want too much of it too often. It have been better if he'd have took it all pretty regular. Jim Collie (13:36): Right. Mr. Haywood Wallace (13:36): He could've stood it better. Jim Collie (13:38): Mr. Wallace, we're out of time, but I sure have enjoyed visiting with you this morning. People's Bank and Trust wants to thank you for sharing your memories with us.

Jim Collie speaks with Haywood Wallace about growing up in Natchitoches Parish with a large family, including holidays, and an epidemic.

Tags: natchitoches, louisiana, epidemic, holidays, ncptt, national center for preservation technology and training, podcast, podcasts

May 30, 2024

31. Frank Jones

Transcript

Transcript

Interviewer (00:00): Good morning. This morning, Mr. Frank Jones and myself are going to be talking about Natchitoches. Now, you were born in Natchitoches. Frank (00:12): Born in Natchitoches. Raised here. Interviewer (00:14): When did you see your first car? Frank (00:18): Oh, well, I say around about 15 or 20 years. Interviewer (00:25): You were about 15 years old? Frank (00:29): Yes, sir. Interviewer (00:29): Okay. Did it cause some kind of big disturbance when people saw a car? Frank (00:35): No, sir. Interviewer (00:36): They had heard about them, huh? Frank (00:37): We'd heard about them. Interviewer (00:37): I see. Was old Model T? Frank (00:42): Old Model T. Interviewer (00:47): Growing up in Natchitoches as a boy, what was it like? Frank (00:52): Well, there was nothing much. I'd have a good time. Plenty to eat, plenty good places to sleep. Go when I get ready, come back when I get ready. Have fun. Interviewer (01:07): Well, Mr. Jones, tell me about the riverboats coming to Natchitoches, when they used to come. Frank (01:13): Well, it's been so long, I can't tell you the right answer on that, when they used to come there, because I can't remember good. But I know they come there. Interviewer (01:27): Well, what did they bring to Natchitoches? Frank (01:30): Well, they'd call and tell them what to bring, and they'd bring it. Interviewer (01:35): Uh-huh (affirmative). Flour and beans? Frank (01:37): That's right. Meat. Interviewer (01:41): All kinds of good things. Frank (01:42): Rice. Peas. Yeah. They bring everything they told them to bring. Interviewer (01:51): Well, did the people get excited when the riverboat came? Frank (01:56): They were excited. They were glad, to me. "Oh, we got something coming. I don't know what it is, but it's coming." Interviewer (02:04): Well, did you ever used to ride on the riverboat? Frank (02:06): Oh, I didn't. I sure didn't. But I would see it a lot. I seen it good. But getting on it, I never get on it because I was scared of the water. Interviewer (02:16): Oh. You never did learn to swim. Frank (02:19): Well, no, sir. I tell you the truth, I never did try to swim. Interviewer (02:27): Mm-hmm (affirmative). What were big days? Celebrations? Can you remember anything about that? Like the 4th of July? Frank (02:36): Well, 4th of July, we enjoy that good. 19th of June, always like that. Interviewer (02:43): 19th of June, now, what is that? Frank (02:45): Well, that's your birthday. It come on a birthday. See, I was born in June. The 19th of June. Interviewer (02:56): So that's your special day? Frank (02:57): Yes, sir. Interviewer (02:58): What did you used to do on your birthday? Frank (03:01): Well, I didn't drink nothing much, but we eat and laugh and talk. Sometimes tell them, I say, "Well, y'all ain't eating much. I'll finish eating y'all." They laughed. [crosstalk 00:03:15]. They laughed, going on, say, "Well, I'll order you something else." I said, "No, I'm just playing. I got [inaudible 00:03:23]." Interviewer (03:22): Now, did you go out to eat, or did they cook at home for you? Frank (03:26): They cook at home for me. Then I'd go out someplace and eat. Interviewer (03:32): Sounds like a big day. Frank (03:33): That's right. Interviewer (03:35): When did you quit having birthday parties? Your family put birthday parties on for you? Frank (03:40): It's been a long time ago. Interviewer (03:42): Long time. (03:43): Yes, sir. Frank (03:47): Can you remember one special birthday that you had, where something happened that didn't happen again? (03:54): I sure can't remember that. Lord knows I can't. Interviewer (04:00): What about Christmas time? Frank (04:02): Oh, Christmas time. We had a good time for Christmas. Interviewer (04:06): How did you used to decorate a tree? Frank (04:08): Well, sometime, I'd like to get up a tree. Cut limbs down. Get them down and get out, and saw that big tree down. They'd say, "Frank," say, "You better move since that tree going to hit you." Says, "Not going to hit me, because when it start to coming down, I'm going to start running." They laughed. They laughed. Started to coming down, I seen it coming down. I said, "I'll run." Great big old tree. See, I'd run. You won't catch me. Interviewer (04:41): How did y'all decorate the Christmas tree? Frank (04:44): Well, we get [inaudible 00:04:47]. We get up there and get on them limbs. Cut some of them limbs down. Some of them are down, they fix them, make courses or get things and slice them up, make beards and things, all like that. Interviewer (05:03): Did you put candles on the tree? Frank (05:07): Yeah, I put candles on the tree. I remember that. Interviewer (05:12): Everybody get together and strung popcorn, and put popcorn on the tree? Frank (05:17): Popcorn? I don't remember that. No. Interviewer (05:19): Oh, okay. Frank (05:22): I might have had, but I can't remember. Interviewer (05:25): What about Thanksgiving? Frank (05:27): Thanksgiving day? We had a good time because, yeah, Thanksgiving day we have a big dinner. Everything. They'd drink the stuff they drink, but I know they drink that. I eat. I was a big eater. But eat don't set on me. If it did, I'd be bigger than a bed. Interviewer (05:55): You must have some secret, then. Because I know a lot of people, if they ate like you eat, would certainly be fat. Frank (06:03): That's the truth. Interviewer (06:03): But not you. Frank (06:09): Not me. Because I eat. God knows, I eat. Sometimes I keep a sandwich in my room, my house, right now. Because about 12 or 1:00, I get kind of hungry. I remember that we had a ice box that we kept ice in there. [crosstalk 00:06:30]. Interviewer (06:30): One of those old wooden ice box? Frank (06:32): Yeah. Interviewer (06:33): And where'd you buy the ice at? Frank (06:35): Well, we'd go and get the ice. You'd call them and tell them to bring you some ice. They bring it. They bring the ice to you. You want to go get ice, how much you want to go get, you go get it. Interviewer (06:55): I see. How long did a block of ice last? Frank (07:00): Oh, that'd last us... I think there was four of us, two boys and two girls. A block would last us two weeks or more. I would guess at two weeks. Interviewer (07:17): Now, how much did the block of ice cost then? Do you remember? Frank (07:22): Well, exactly I can't... what it cost. It cost... I don't know. I can make a guess on it. A block of ice, big old ice, a block of ice, it cost about... in them days, it's cheap. Round about four or five dollars, them days. Interviewer (07:52): Now, that'd last you for two weeks. Frank (07:54): Two weeks. Two weeks. Interviewer (07:58): I think electricity is better. Frank (08:00): It is better. It's better. You're right about that. Interviewer (08:07): We need to take a break right now, and we'll be back in just a minute. (08:16): If you've just joined us, we're visiting with Mr. Frank Jones. And he's told me he's never been in trouble in his life, but there was one time when he had a mix-up with the law. Now what about the time you got thrown in jail, Mr. Jones? Frank (08:32): It's been a good while ago. There's these two young police, they carried me to the... They say, "Well, I'll take you home." Instead of carrying me home, they put me in jail. I was maybe about- Interviewer (08:44): What for? Frank (08:45): Nothing. Interviewer (08:46): Just doing something. Frank (08:46): They just got onto the force. They thought that they would do something big. And the big boss come in there. He looked at them like that. He said, "Frank." I said, "Yes." Well, they standing [inaudible 00:09:01] that door for me. I said, "Them police, they put me in jail. They told me they going to get me home." He said, "I wish I'd have been there." He said, "Come on. Let him go." So they brought me on out there. There was the big boss man. And [inaudible 00:09:08] going on, he gave me $5. He said, "You can do what you want with it, because you all right. Anybody come in here like you did, they'd waste them." He said, "Here's $5." Interviewer (09:36): Well, now. You used to farm a little bit. Frank (09:41): Farm a whole lot. Interviewer (09:44): For how long did you farm? Frank (09:47): Oh, four, five, or six years. Seven years. Something like that. I know how to farm. Interviewer (09:52): What did you raise? Frank (09:57): Cotton. Corn. Any little thing we could raise on the farm. Raised cotton and corn. Interviewer (10:07): Did you own this land? Frank (10:08): No, sir. We were renting it. Interviewer (10:09): Who did you rent it from? Frank (10:13): The big boss. I forget his name. It's been too long. I just forget his name, but I know him when I see him. He could come in here right now, I'd know him. And he'd know me. He'd start to laugh and going on, but what is his name? I can't recall his name, right now. But I'd know him if I see him. Interviewer (10:32): Well now, how much money did you pay for this land that you rented? Frank (10:32): Five or six dollars a acre. Yes, sir. Interviewer (10:40): And you did this for six, seven years. Frank (10:43): Six, seven years. Interviewer (10:45): What'd you do after that? Frank (10:47): Started to drive a truck. Interviewer (10:49): Who'd you drive a truck for? Frank (10:50): For the company. The man's name was [Carl Ezra 00:10:55]. He died. He's a big man. I drove a truck for him. That's all I ever did do, was a big truck. I hauled everything. See, Natchitoches was dry, then. Interviewer (11:09): Dry. Frank (11:10): Dry with whisky. Interviewer (11:12): Oh, okay. Dry with whiskey. All right. Frank (11:30): So [inaudible 00:11:30] told me, "I bet you he'll call you, to carry you somewhere. But please remember us. Bring us some whiskey." All right. The boss carried me out. He said, "You stay here a while and just play [inaudible 00:11:50]." I said, "Oh, what for?" He said, "I'm going run and see can I get me Coke or something." Wasn't no Coke. It that whisky he got. Yeah. He said, "All right. You can get the Coke over there. Anything you want." I said, "Anything I want." He said, "I don't know what I'm going to get like that, myself." Interviewer (11:58): But most of the time you were hauling furniture. Frank (12:02): Furniture. Groceries. Just whatever they wanted, they allowed, I would haul that. They make a list out, and it's like, they would say, "You can have this into your place, and I'll give it to them." And load it up and bring it on. They'd load it for you. They'd bring it on here, and I'd bring it. I brought whisky for them. They'd say, "Here come Frank. Frank got something for us." I said, "No, I didn't have enough money." I said, "Well, 12:00 come, we eat." Interviewer (12:50): And you used to hunt. Frank (12:51): I used to hunt. Interviewer (12:53): You ever hunt deer? Frank (12:54): Anything I could see to kill. Deer or possum or rabbit. Interviewer (13:03): Now didn't you tell me that once you thought you'd shot one deer, and you shot two deer instead? Frank (13:08): That's right. Interviewer (13:10): Tell me about that. Frank (13:14): Well, I shot one, but I didn't know I'd shot the other. But I shot two. Interviewer (13:19): You shot it with one bullet or two? Frank (13:20): Two bullets. (13:21): Uh-huh (affirmative). Interviewer (13:25): I remember that good, I did it too long. (13:27): What was your reaction when you got there and found out that you'd shot two deer? Frank (13:33): Just glad, that's all. Interviewer (13:33): Just glad? Frank (13:33): Glad. Interviewer (13:36): Well, we need to go right now. Frank (13:37): Okay. Interviewer (13:39): It has been a pleasure visiting with you.

Memories host speaks with Frank Jones about growing up in Natchitoches, holiday celebrations, and farming

Tags: natchitoches, farming, holidays, thanksgiving, christmas, oral history, oral history interview, ncptt, national center for preservation technology and training, podcast, podcasts

May 16, 2024

30. Francis Metoyer

Transcript

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02): Good morning. On the Memories program today, we have a lovely lady. Born in Natchitoches Parish, raised there for a small period of her life and then has traveled greatly and has returned again. May I introduce to you Mrs. Francis Metoyer. Good morning. Francis Metoyer (00:20): Good morning. Francis Metoyer speaking. Well, I want to tell somebody my experience after I was 65 years old. I left Natchitoches and I went to Chicago. And from Chicago, I went to Indianapolis. And from Indianapolis, I went to Wisconsin. And from Wisconsin, I'm back to Natchitoches. But I learned a lot of my experience about crocheting and other craft works that I make, quilts and spreads. I make that sitting at the house and also I go to craft houses and also at the old folks home, help them out some. (01:03): And by doing my traveling time, I had a lot of experience because I went through a tornado. And the tornado was so bad that it looked like everybody in the bus was going to die. But I told them, let's pray. And instead of praying we sing songs. And I'll never forget a little red car passed on top of the bus with a man and his wife in it, and passed and fell on the other side of the bus and both of them got killed. Speaker 1 (01:31): Oh that's terrible. Francis Metoyer (01:35): On the next morning, we read the paper and the little red car was on the newspaper and they had just gotten married about 24 hours. Speaker 1 (01:46): It just sailed right over the top of the bus. Francis Metoyer (01:47): And they sailed on top of the bus and they fell in the ditch and both of them got killed in a little red car. I don't know the numbers of cars or what kind of car, but I knew the car passed on top of the bus. I'll never forget this car long as I live. Speaker 1 (02:01): You talked about that you crochet. How did you learn to crochet? Francis Metoyer (02:08): I learned how to crochet looking through a crack at my mother and a lady, a young girl was showing my mother how to crochet. And I didn't have no crochet needle so I took a cypress splinter and I made my crochet needle and I went on crocheting with that until I learned how to crochet. No one learned me how to crochet. Right now I can crochet most anything that a person can crochet, but I learned it on a cypress splinter that I made myself. The one [inaudible 00:02:47] I crocheted with a cypress splinter. Speaker 1 (02:49): What did you use for material to crochet? Francis Metoyer (02:52): I'd rip up flour sacks and take them strings and that's what I'd crochet with. I even made sweaters with them. Speaker 1 (03:01): Sweaters? Francis Metoyer (03:02): With string that I get off of the flour and meal sacks. Speaker 1 (03:10): My goodness. And you also do quilt work, right? Francis Metoyer (03:15): And I do quilt work but I didn't start that until I was 65 years old. But crocheting, I've been crocheting since I was nine years old and that's where I learnt. I never been to school in my life. Speaker 1 (03:30): In your travels, you mentioned Chicago. Francis Metoyer (03:34): I went to Chicago, I lived in Chicago for several years. Speaker 1 (03:39): What's the difference, what is the thing you remember most about Chicago? Francis Metoyer (03:43): Well, I like the parks in Chicago and different places you go to eat and have good times. I loved them places in Chicago. Speaker 1 (03:55): That's what you remember about it? Francis Metoyer (03:57): And I remember that nice about Chicago. Speaker 1 (03:59): What were the bad things about it? Francis Metoyer (04:01): Well, that's when the riot, that's what they called it I believe, when the whole lot of people just fighting for one part of Chicago. Well that was bad. Speaker 1 (04:10): That's the riots. Francis Metoyer (04:11): Yeah. Speaker 1 (04:12): What part of Chicago did you live in? Francis Metoyer (04:14): I live the North part of Chicago, that's where I live most time. I live in the East part of Chicago just a short while. But it was the North part of Chicago. And that's why they had that riots. Speaker 1 (04:29): You were there when all the riots were going on. Francis Metoyer (04:31): Were going on, I seen them kill a little girl and put her behind a motorcycle and all this. Airplanes coming down on top of the house hollering to people to stay in they house. I saw all that. Speaker 1 (04:47): That must have been terrible. Francis Metoyer (04:48): Well I sawed some bad things and good things in Chicago. But I left Chicago. But I wouldn't want to live there anymore. I stayed there three months that last year, I had a wonderful time. I went to a wedding, we sing and dance and I had a wonderful time at that wedding. And I got pictures that I took and 'course in Chicago they shoot it on television. Speaker 1 (05:19): Of course. Francis Metoyer (05:20): While we was dancing and singing because the film went on all the time the wedding that was two hours long. Speaker 1 (05:30): And you showed that on the news? Francis Metoyer (05:32): Yeah, they showed in for fifteen minutes on television. Speaker 1 (05:37): We have to take a break right now and we'll be right back in just a moment. Francis Metoyer (05:37): All right. Speaker 1 (05:47): If you've just joined us, we're visiting with Mrs. Metoyer and we're about to talk about sharecropping. Francis Metoyer (05:54): Well, my sharecropping that was the first year after I got married. We went on Mr. Jim Watlow's place and we work what they call on half. We given half of our bales of cotton, we made 19 bales of cotton that year, and we give him half. And we paid him what bought on credit all the year at the Watlow store and at the end of the year we paid him with our share of cotton and he got the other share and we got [inaudible 00:06:32] amount of money off of our crop. But from them, we left Mr. Watlow and went and worked with some other folks and, well the next year we didn't meet anything, it all went to what we had bought during the year. Speaker 1 (06:51): Did he furnish the plows and the mules? Francis Metoyer (06:55): The plow, the mule, and... Speaker 1 (06:58): The house? Francis Metoyer (06:59): ... and the house. And we plowed, we worked the land. My husband plowed, we hoed, but by the end of the year we had a lot of sickness so at the end of the year it took all what we had made, we didn't have anything. So we moved back with Mr. Watlow in Montgomery, Louisiana. And we worked on half that with him until we caught up again. And then we moved back in Natchitoches Parish. And after Natchitoches Parish, well, we shared crop. We shared crop all the way until he died in 1948. Speaker 1 (07:49): Okay. You were talking a little earlier about sickness. What kind of home remedies did y'all use? Medicines. Francis Metoyer (07:56): Well, we had what you'd call a tea. We use some kind of tea what we used to boil and then some roots, we call it just whatever roots we'd dig up, any kind of roots that would make a tea would make it. I used to know how to make cough syrup and I'd make that out of cherry roots. You know what is a cherry tree? Speaker 1 (08:34): Yes ma'am. Francis Metoyer (08:35): Well, we'd dig them cherry tree roots and also what they call a file roots where they go in the woods and get this file, you know? Speaker 1 (08:50): What kind of? No, I don't know. Francis Metoyer (08:56): You know what this is, I don't know what they call this kind of thing, but you get the leaves and you mash them and make file. Speaker 1 (09:02): Ah, file gumbo. Francis Metoyer (09:02): The gumbo. Speaker 1 (09:03): Oh, okay. Francis Metoyer (09:04): Yeah, that's right. Well, we take them roots, boil all that together and we pour syrup in there and make a cough syrup. Speaker 1 (09:13): Did it work? Francis Metoyer (09:15): Well, it worked in my time. Speaker 1 (09:19): Well, it might work now. Francis Metoyer (09:20): I wouldn't know. But in my time raising my children, I raised 14 children, and nobody hardly got no doctors with a cold it had. I'd always make the cough syrup for them to drink. Speaker 1 (09:34): What about if someone was real bad sick? Francis Metoyer (09:36): Well, when they was real bad sick we'd get the doctor. Speaker 1 (09:36): Get a doctor. Francis Metoyer (09:39): Get a doctor. But for the small children when they'd have a cold, we'd always fix some kind of little remedy thing for them. Then we'd do mustard seed, we'd boil it in mustard seed, for syrup we'd mash in mustard seed and make a poultice with it and put it on there while they say they be hurting. For pneumonia, because some of my children had pneumonia we never got the doctor for them. Speaker 1 (09:39): And it always worked? Francis Metoyer (10:11): It always did work but I wouldn't try it now anymore. Speaker 1 (10:13): Why? Francis Metoyer (10:14): I don't know that but I wouldn't try that. There's a lot of things that we did in our time that I wouldn't try it anymore. Speaker 1 (10:22): Oh I see. You must have a lot of recipes in your head about how to make different things. Do you know how to make boudain? Francis Metoyer (10:22): Yes, I does. Speaker 1 (10:29): How do you make it? Tell me about it. Francis Metoyer (10:34): Well, you got to first butcher the hog and get the blood be coming out the hog and you pour plenty salt on it as it coming out, you pour plenty salt. And then you set it and when you open the hog and get all the hot fat in there, put that in that blood and stir it up good. And then you cut lot of onion, plenty red pepper, black pepper, and also garlic you put in there. And then you stuff them up and put them to boil, let them boil awhile and that blood all come thick in there and you cut it and it look just like sausage when you cut it. Speaker 1 (11:16): Now do you put rice in there? Francis Metoyer (11:18): Some people put rices in it. You cook your rice and then stir it up into that blood. Speaker 1 (11:24): But you always made red boudain? Francis Metoyer (11:28): I always made mine just pure red with a whole lot of garlic, no lot of onion, and red, red pepper. Speaker 1 (11:33): Mm, sounds good. That's the green onion now. Francis Metoyer (11:37): Green onions and garlic you put in it and you boil it up there and it just comes so nice and pretty and you just could cut it just like if it is sausage. Speaker 1 (11:54): And you make hogs head cheese? Francis Metoyer (11:54): Yeah, I made hog head cheese too, lot of it. And well that's something you got to boil the head and the feet and the ears, mash it up good, and put a lot of season in that too. And that's real good. Can't everybody make them right because I believe mine about the best I ever knew though. Speaker 1 (12:13): Well, you better. Francis Metoyer (12:16): So I have made them because I got people what living today can tell you how they come for my hog head cheese. Speaker 1 (12:25): Sounds good. We've enjoyed visiting with you this morning. Francis Metoyer (12:32): [inaudible 00:12:32] is stayed with y'all today. Bon soir in my white little car.

Memories host speaks with Mrs. Francis Metoyer about growing up in Natchitoches and sharecropping.

Tags: sharecropping, natchitoches, louisiana, oral history interview, ncptt, memories, national center for preservation technology and training, podcast, podcasts

May 2, 2024

29. Occie Stafford

Transcript

Transcript

David Dollar (00:01): Hello, once again, this is David Dollar. We're visiting in the home of Mr. and Ms. Dave Stafford. Occie Stafford we're going to talk to today, Ms. Stafford. And you might hear some background noises on this tape and think that things are wrong at the radio station, but it's not because we're out on a nice screened-in porch and it's fixing to rain. The storm clouds are coming in. So whatever you hear is what we’re hearing right now. And we're not going to make any bones about that because I'm loving it. Ms. Stafford, let's start things off this morning by you telling us a little about your family. Where you were born and things. Mrs. Occie Stafford (00:39): Well, I was born and raised about three miles from here and I was born in 1902, September 1902. And I had three sisters, one brother and my mother was sick lots when my brother [inaudible 00:00:54]. David Dollar (00:55): Where were you born? Excuse me, let me interrupt you. Where were you born? Mrs. Occie Stafford (00:59): Here in Marthaville. [crosstalk 00:00:59]. David Dollar (00:59): I missed that. Mrs. Occie Stafford (01:05): And so I learned to sew when I was very small to make clothes for my two baby sisters. I stood in a rawhide bottom chair and ironed with a big old, Tommy raw iron on the dining table because mom and poppa thought I'd drop the iron on my feet, made me break my foot or ankle. David Dollar (01:25): I bet you would too. I've seen some of those big old things. Mrs. Occie Stafford (01:26): And he cut a block and put in front of the wood stove for me to get up on, to tend to my vittles and cooking and frying on top of the stove. David Dollar (01:35): How old were you when you were doing these kinds of things? Mrs. Occie Stafford (01:40): Well I was, I guess I was about seven or eight years old. I can remember washing out baby clothes the day I was six years old. David Dollar (01:48): My goodness. You just kind of had all kind of chores on your hands. Didn't you? At a very early age. Mrs. Occie Stafford (01:53): I've always enjoyed working. My mother and daddy never did tell me to have to do a thing. They never laid the weight of their hands on me. I rolled down that bed and made a fire when I was little, too little to put on a back stick on the fireplace. My daddy put on one at night and I always got up and cooked breakfast. I carried my daddy coffee to the bed and- David Dollar (02:15): Things had to be done and you were the one that did it, uh? Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:17): I was oldest and I always take the lead and the help I could see the things needed to be done and should be done. David Dollar (02:25): That's right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:26): And I think that's where people is doing wrong today is raising their children not to work. David Dollar (02:26): Not to work. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:31): Not the love to work David Dollar (02:31): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:33): Plan to work. I think they get more out of life. I have enjoyed my whole life. David Dollar (02:33): I see. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:39): I have got pleasure out of my work. I love to work. David Dollar (02:42): Wait and how did you learn if your mother was kind of sick? Was she able to show you these things? How did you learn to say to cook and iron? I know. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:50): Well... David Dollar (02:50): I can't do stuff like that now. Mrs. Occie Stafford (02:51): When I was tinier, I seen her doing it and I learned to do it. And I tell you one time, my cornbread smelt funny, and I didn't want to bother mama with nothing because she was sick. David Dollar (03:05): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:06): And the house had a big old hall in it. The kitchen way down there. I didn't have to bother. David Dollar (03:10): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:10): Miss Allie Boward came from her field where she was working at her lunch out. And I met her at the hall steps and I said, "Miss Allie, I am so proud you come." I says, "My cornbread smells funny." She come on in there and she says, "Honey, tasted it. You ain't put no salt in it. You forgot to put your salt." David Dollar (03:32): And you were young and just learning how to cook. Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:34): Yeah. And then another thing Miss Allie Boward helped me put my first quilt in the frame. David Dollar (03:39): Oh, yeah? Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:39): To quilt. David Dollar (03:40): I noticed when we were coming in, you got another one in the works out there now. Mrs. Occie Stafford (03:43): Oh, yeah. There's several of them. I've been quilting ever since. Piecing. I crochet. I embroidery. I [inaudible 00:03:50]. When I sit down, I've got something in my hands doing it. I love to work, stay busy. I think we all should stay busy. I think if people would stay busy, I think they'd hold their mind longer. David Dollar (04:05): Wouldn't have time to get in a bunch of trouble that way would we? Mrs. Occie Stafford (04:05): That's true. David Dollar (04:05): We stay busy. Mrs. Occie Stafford (04:11): And I want to stay busy as long as I live and I expect to, and I expect to keep my old self going. And I I milk cows and I churn. I plowed a horse. I had a horse to ride. I had a saddle and always raised chickens. We raised our meat. We raised our cane and made our syrup. I skim syrup, made syrup on any day. I could make a syrup just as good as anybody. David Dollar (04:11): You were right in the middle of all that stuff going on. Mrs. Occie Stafford (04:40): Yes, sir. I've had a full life. David Dollar (04:42): Let me stop you right here. We need to take a short commercial. We'll pick up here in just a second. Mrs. Occie Stafford (04:46): Okay. David Dollar (04:47): David Dollar visiting with Ms. Occie Stafford down in Marthaville. We'd be right back after this message from our sponsor, People's Bank and Trust Company. (05:00): Hello, once again. In case you're just joining us. David Dollar and Ms. Occie Stafford down in Marthaville. We visited with Mr. Stafford last time and talked to him some. We're talking to Mrs. Stafford now and she's telling us about more work than I've heard about in quite a while. You, I'm kind of getting tired, sitting here, listening to everything you've been talking about. Let's go back to when you were a little girl and and you said your mom was sick. All this work that you did, you really had to do. It wasn't a... Mrs. Occie Stafford (05:00): It was a necessity because there wasn't nobody to hire them days. It didn't do that. David Dollar (05:00): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (05:36): And nobody had no money to hire. David Dollar (05:38): So? Mrs. Occie Stafford (05:38): And we washed on a rug board. We hung our clothes out on a picket fence. And so we live. Now, people call it the bad times back in old times, but it was the good times. It was a lot of better times. There was more pleasure with children, young folks, old folks, people come spend Sunday and eat dinner with you. And they was more in life back then there are now. David Dollar (06:03): Let me ask you this. You talk about pleasurable times when you finally finished all this work that you were doing, what did you do to have a good time? I know you enjoyed working. Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:14): We went to church and went to Sunday school. David Dollar (06:16): What all went on in church when you were a little girl? What do you remember about that? Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:20): Well we had Sunday school. We had league. We belonged to the Methodist Church. We had the children's league and the church and the preachers them days would come spend the night with you because they didn't have cars. David Dollar (06:20): Right. Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:26): And enjoy cooking and fixing for the ministers you know. And we had a wagon to go and come to church in. David Dollar (06:42): Did y'all ever do much dancing or anything like that? Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:44): No, I never did dance. David Dollar (06:46): That's kind of not accepted too much there, uh?. Mrs. Occie Stafford (06:50): No, we wasn't. Mr. Dave Stafford (06:51): I did it. [crosstalk 00:06:51]. David Dollar (06:51): You did? Oh, now Mr. Stafford something's been going on here. One of them dancing and one of them isn't. Who were you dancing with? You don't have to answer that. I'm just kidding. Don't answer. Might get y'all in trouble here. [crosstalk 00:07:02] Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:04): But we met up and we married in 1929. David Dollar (07:07): I see. Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:09): He was 29 years old and I was 26. David Dollar (07:13): When did y'all marry here in Marthaville? Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:13): In Natchitoches. David Dollar (07:13): In Natchitoches? Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:16): Right down there where that Live Oak store is at, in front of the new drug store. David Dollar (07:22): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:22): That store. There was a different building then. That's where we married. [inaudible 00:07:28] David Dollar (07:30): And y'all moved back over in this area? Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:31): Yeah, we come back to Marthaville and lived in Marthaville. He was still saw milling. David Dollar (07:31): Saw milling and you were still busy doing things at home. Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:43): Yes, sir. I always carried on to work at home and I've always had a garden every year. And so he just... My life has been full. David Dollar (07:52): Have y'all had any children? Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:53): No, we don't have any children. David Dollar (07:55): I was just wondering if you were able to pass on all these things to... Mrs. Occie Stafford (07:59): No, I don't have no children. David Dollar (08:00): I see. Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:00): But my sister's children, I guess feel about like my grandchildren. Now my brothers got a boy down here. Only child he's got and he's the nearest thing to both of us. David Dollar (08:00): Right. Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:21): And they've got two little children and a little boy and little girl and we... David Dollar (08:21): Let me ask you this, have you been able to interest them in cooking or doing some quilting or anything like that? Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:28): I taught his wife. I learned her how to crochet and... David Dollar (08:28): Oh, really? Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:29): And to sew and to do a lot of things that she didn't do. Fancy work and she has really enjoyed it and made life out of it. David Dollar (08:39): Great. Great. Well, Ms. Stafford we certainly enjoyed you visiting with us today. Mr. Stafford thank you for, even though it might have got you in trouble, but in there about dancing, you better watch stuff like that. Those lady folks will get you, if they find out you've been out dancing on them. Mr. Dave Stafford (08:39): I know. David Dollar (08:39): Okay. Mrs. Occie Stafford (08:55): Before we married, he drank a little but he quit it before we married. David Dollar (08:56): Quit that too. Oh, that's good. Mrs. Occie Stafford (09:01): So I wanna tell y'all one thing. Is the tape still on? David Dollar (09:02): It's still on. I'll tell you what, we'll finish it. If it's kind of secret, let me finish up the show. Mrs. Occie Stafford (09:02): I want to tell y'all one thing but I didn't want it on tape. David Dollar (09:12): All right. [crosstalk 00:09:12]. (09:12): I tell you what, I'm fixing to end this show up and I'm going to find something out that y'all, ain't going to find out because I got to turn the tape off. We thank you for joining us this far though. David Dollar visiting with the Staffords down in Marthaville and it's just about raining and thundering on the series. I'm sure you can hear.

David Dollar speaks with Occie Stafford in Marthaville about growing up doing chores and how that translated into working.

Tags: marthaville, natchitoches, chores, work, ncptt, national center for preservation technology and training, podcast

April 18, 2024

28. Mary Jacobs

Transcript

Transcript

Jim Colley (00:00): ... this morning on The Memory Show we'll be talking with Mrs. Mary Jacobs at her home here in Natchitoches. This is Jim [Colley 00:00:06]. Welcome to The Memory Show, Mrs. Jacobs. We're glad to see you. Mary Jacobs (00:09): Glad to see you. Jim Colley (00:11): We were talking about, before the show began, where you grew up. You grew up right around this area didn't you? Mary Jacobs (00:18): Grew up in Cypress. Jim Colley (00:19): Where's Cypress? Mary Jacobs (00:20): 12 miles from here. Jim Colley (00:22): So have you ever been out of this parish? Mary Jacobs (00:24): Sure. Jim Colley (00:24): You travelled around a lot? Mary Jacobs (00:26): Not too much, but I have been out of [inaudible 00:00:28] like Mississippi and New York, and that's it. Jim Colley (00:35): I've always wondered where the name Cypress came from. Do you know? Mary Jacobs (00:40): No, I wouldn't know. Jim Colley (00:41): Were there any Cypress trees around there? Mary Jacobs (00:44): A few. Jim Colley (00:44): Just a few. Not very many, though. Mary Jacobs (00:44): Not too many. Jim Colley (00:47): Well, I've always wondered about that. How large was your family? Mary Jacobs (00:52): Five kids, mother and daddy. Jim Colley (00:55): You were what? The next to last? Is that what you told me? Mary Jacobs (01:00): Next to the last. Jim Colley (01:01): Next to the last. Mary Jacobs (01:01): That's right. Jim Colley (01:02): Were you spoiled? Mary Jacobs (01:04): Yes, I was. Jim Colley (01:04): What was it like being a spoiled fourth child? Mary Jacobs (01:09): I loved it. I wasn't a [inaudible 00:01:13]. Yes I am. Jim Colley (01:18): Growing up down in Cypress and living down there, was that a saw mill town or was it basically a farming town? Mary Jacobs (01:26): Basically a farming town. Jim Colley (01:28): Your dad worked for who down there? Mary Jacobs (01:29): Mr. Jim Salters. Jim Colley (01:29): What was it like growing up around there? What did the kids have to do? Mary Jacobs (01:36): Well, we didn't have too much to do. We'd do swimming, build us a diving board down at the river. And we went to school, now. We went to school in a small church house. Now I never did get no further than the fourth grade. But it was a small church house, went to schooling down there. But we had a good time down there. We was raised... Now my daddy used to cut cordwood. And we burned cordwood, we burned wood , and we also cooked on wood, y’know we had a heater. That's what we was raised by, a heater. We didn't have a fireplace like people does y’know . So that's where we lived. My daddy used to kill hog, kill meat. Jim Colley (02:13): And you all have put that up? Mary Jacobs (02:15): And then we'd raise chicken. Jim Colley (02:16): Would you make all that stuff, smoke it? And you remember much about that? Mary Jacobs (02:21): I mean, I remember some of it. He would salt the meat down. I remember about the salt. But I don't remember no smoked meat, but we never did. I didn't see him do it. He just salt the meat down. Jim Colley (02:34): The way families grew up back then, they were a lot closer. And I think one of the reasons why, the houses weren't very big. What kind of house do you remember growing up in? Mary Jacobs (02:43): I grew up a three room frame building. Jim Colley (02:46): So everybody just lived right there together? Mary Jacobs (02:48): That's right. Three rooms, that's right. Jim Colley (02:51): And the heat came... You said you grew up around a heater. Didn't have a fireplace. Mary Jacobs (02:54): Yeah, it had a heater. We didn't have a fireplace. We had a heater to burn wood, and also a cookstove to burn wood in it. Jim Colley (03:01): But it didn't ever get too cold down there? Mary Jacobs (03:04): Not too bad. Jim Colley (03:06): What kind of games did you play as a child? Do you remember any? Mary Jacobs (03:09): Yeah, played stick dolls, and we played like these ring around the roses. [inaudible 00:03:19] play? Jim Colley (03:21): How would you make those stick dolls? Did you make them to play with, or did somebody make them for you? Mary Jacobs (03:25): We made them ourselves. [inaudible 00:03:26] on a stick piece of wood and cut it and split it. Put some arms on it, sewed a rag around the arm and make a little round knot and make the head. And make little dresses and put them on. Now you couldn't see the feet. Jim Colley (03:40): So you had a real good doll. Mary Jacobs (03:41): A real good doll. Jim Colley (03:43): After you finished with that. Mary Jacobs (03:44): Sure did. Take a matchbox and make them little trunks to put the clothes in. Jim Colley (03:49): So you could play house almost. Mary Jacobs (03:56): Yeah. Like my doll, going to visit somebody, I would stick them under the house [inaudible 00:03:56]. Jim Colley (03:58): That's a good way of doing it. As you grew up and got to be a teenager, did you have many dates? Or did y'all date or did you just go out in crowds together? Mary Jacobs (04:11): We usually went out in crowd together. When I did started dating, I eventually got married. Jim Colley (04:16): It just led right into it didn't it? Mary Jacobs (04:18): That's right. Jim Colley (04:19): What kind of things did a teenage crowd do? We were talking about dances. Mary Jacobs (04:23): That was it. Our teenage, we'd go to each other houses or they'd invite us to their house and we'd play dance. This dance, seven of eight and circle right. Jim Colley (04:34): Now what's that? Seven of eight. Mary Jacobs (04:35): Seven of eight of us. And then it says circle right, and you'd go back left and we'd go back right and swing each other. Jim Colley (04:44): Yeah? And then you'd go through the same dance again or was there something else you'd do? Mary Jacobs (04:47): Oh, we'd play old house. Tear it down. [inaudible 00:04:50]. We could dance by that. Jim Colley (04:51): Well, tell me what old house tear it down is. Mary Jacobs (04:54): Well, that's all I knew. It just was a song and we would dance by it. Jim Colley (04:57): So everybody'd sing it and dance at the same time. Mary Jacobs (04:59): Dance by it. Be singing it. Old house, tear it down. Old house, tear it... Then go on. You got to hand me and build [inaudible 00:05:07] and all that stuff. Jim Colley (05:08): Oh, so it had a lot of motion kind of things to it. Mary Jacobs (05:13): That's right, that's right. And little Sally Walker sitting in a saucer. Ride Sally ride like that. Jim Colley (05:13): Now what? Mary Jacobs (05:18): Little Sally Walker sitting in a saucer weeping and a crying. Ride Sally ride. And we'd ride and choose my partner and swing them going around. Jim Colley (05:27): Those were good times. Mary Jacobs (05:28): It sure were. That's kind of time we had. Jim Colley (05:30): Yeah. Mary Jacobs (05:31): Oh, like now we didn't have nothing like that. Jim Colley (05:34): You had to make do with your own stuff, and somehow that was pretty good stuff I guess. Mary Jacobs (05:38): That's right. Jim Colley (05:39): What about picnics? Did y'all have many picnics? Mary Jacobs (05:44): Right at the house. Jim Colley (05:45): Right at the house. Mary Jacobs (05:46): We lived on a river bank. We'd have it right up behind the bank. Damn kids get under there and have a picnic. Sometimes mama would be with us, if not, just us. Fish a lot. Jim Colley (05:54): Did you ever have any of those box lunch kind of parties? Mary Jacobs (05:58): Sure. I just said, told you about these boxes we had. We take a shoebox, dress it up, by this paper you know , and make it fancy. Jim Colley (06:08): How would you dress it up? What would one look like? You tell me what one would look like. Mary Jacobs (06:12): Oh, we'd take a shoe box and take this crepe paper and make little tucks around it you know . Put a big bow on top of it and apple, candy, fried chicken in there like that. And then sell the box. Boy buy it, your box. Boy buy the next girl box. Jim Colley (06:29): And so everybody bid on your box, right? Whoever they wanted to eat with- Mary Jacobs (06:29): That's the box they'd buy. Jim Colley (06:29): ... they bid on the box. Mary Jacobs (06:35): That's right. Jim Colley (06:37): Whose box always sold for the most money? Mary Jacobs (06:42): I don't know. Jim Colley (06:42): Was it yours? Mary Jacobs (06:43): I don't know. Jim Colley (06:44): You can't remember, huh? Mary Jacobs (06:45): I can't remember that because the lady didn't tell us. Jim Colley (06:50): Oh. Now that was what happened to the money? Mary Jacobs (06:53): She'd take it to the church. Jim Colley (06:54): Ah, it was a church kind of event. Mary Jacobs (06:58): That's right. Jim Colley (06:58): I guess the church was a place where everybody met and it was just a good social kind of center. Mary Jacobs (07:01): That's right. A little small church, and that's where I went to school, this little small church. Jim Colley (07:06): I wanted to ask you about the school, but let's take a break right now for People's Bank & Trust. And when we come back together, we're going to start off talking about that school you were in, okay? (07:18): If you've just joined this , is The Memory Show. And we're talking with Mrs. Mary Jacobs in her home here in Natchitoches. Ms. Jacobs, we were just talking about growing up in Cypress and what it was like commuting between Cypress on the train. Do you remember much about those train rides? Mary Jacobs (07:36): Yeah, I remember a lot about the train ride because that's the only way we could get to going anyplace. But when we got on the train, we came up here one time, you know and my daddy [inaudible 00:07:44] we just... I don't know nothing about no town. Just walking along just looking. And then he just pulled and bumped my head. I [inaudible 00:07:54]. Jim Colley (07:56): You should have been looking where you were going. Mary Jacobs (07:59): That's right. [inaudible 00:07:59] I went to cry. And he said, "I told you I was ready to go on it." But it wasn't just the [inaudible 00:08:04] train. We used to go up to Shreveport on the train. And they had a little train called Doodle Dump. Jim Colley (08:08): The Doodle Dump train? Mary Jacobs (08:10): Yeah. And we slipped in this caboose you know and ride from here, up from Cypress up here. [inaudible 00:08:15] my mother had a auntie up here you know and we'd come to visit her, stay all day, and catch the little Doodle Dump and go back home. Jim Colley (08:22): And so that's what everybody called the train was Doodle Dump. Mary Jacobs (08:22): That's right. Jim Colley (08:25): I didn't know that there was such a thing. Mary Jacobs (08:27): Well, this was a caboose. I mean, an engine and a [inaudible 00:08:30] and one coach and a caboose. You know [inaudible 00:08:33] caboose? Jim Colley (08:33): Yeah? Mary Jacobs (08:33): Yeah. Jim Colley (08:35): There wasn't much room on there. Mary Jacobs (08:36): Not much room on it. We'd sit up there and [inaudible 00:08:39] like that. Jim Colley (08:40): What was it like for a little girl to be riding on that train? Mary Jacobs (08:42): Oh, it be fun. I want to get up and just run all over the place, but they'd make me sit down. I did. I really enjoyed it- Jim Colley (08:48): I'll bet. Mary Jacobs (08:48): ... at that time you know . Jim Colley (08:50): How old were you when you first started riding the train? Mary Jacobs (08:52): About five years old. Jim Colley (08:54): Did you ever have to ride it by yourself? Mary Jacobs (08:57): Oh, not at five. I never did. Around about 10, 11 I could come up here and see my auntie and go back. Jim Colley (09:05): You said you would go from Cypress up to Natchitoches and Shreveport and where? Mary Jacobs (09:09): In Waskom, Texas. Jim Colley (09:11): How long would it take to ride? Do you remember? All day to go from Cypress- Mary Jacobs (09:17): No. Not all day. To Natchitoches? Jim Colley (09:20): No, to Waskom. I guess you'd what? Go go up to Shreveport and change trains up there. Mary Jacobs (09:25): Yes. No, we didn't change trains. Jim Colley (09:25): Same train. Mary Jacobs (09:28): It was a long train, then, when you rode going up that way. But just from Natchitoches back to Cypress was just a little caboose you know . The engine and this caboose you know . But this was a train. I'd just get on a train and ride up there. But I'd stay all night and come back. But it wouldn't take all day. If I catched the morning train I'd get up there by 12:00. [crosstalk 00:09:51]. Jim Colley (09:50): Now we I wish we had trains like that now, because- Mary Jacobs (09:54): So do I. Jim Colley (09:54): It sure would be a lot easier. Mary Jacobs (09:56): It would. Jim Colley (09:57): But trains were quite an adventure for little kids. All that noise- Mary Jacobs (10:01): Yes, it was. Jim Colley (10:01): ... and big engines and lots of people. Mary Jacobs (10:03): That's right. Get out on it. And we lived right in front of it, right in front of the track. And we'd just get out there and pick up rocks and things, throw it at the trains as it passed by, go out there and try to catch the train you know . A little long train pass, I'd run out there and try to swing one of them. Jim Colley (10:20): Now what do you mean, swing one of them? Mary Jacobs (10:21): You know, catch it by the... You see all those brakeman catch a train? Jim Colley (10:24): Yeah? Mary Jacobs (10:25): Well, I'd try that. Jim Colley (10:27): Well, what happened if you caught it? Mary Jacobs (10:29): Ride a little piece and jump off. Jim Colley (10:30): Ooh. I bet your mother didn't like you doing that. Mary Jacobs (10:34): No, she didn't like it, but we always did. Jim Colley (10:38): Wasn't much she had to say about it. Mary Jacobs (10:40): She didn't say too much. She would just say it was dangerous. Jim Colley (10:43): Yeah. Right before we took that break a few minutes ago, we were talking about going to school. What do you remember about that school? You said you never finished... Well, you got up to the fourth grade. Do you remember much about school? Were there a lot of children there? Mary Jacobs (10:59): It was about 50, something like that in this small church right there. It was kind of crowded. And she was a nice teacher, too. Jim Colley (11:08): Who was your teacher? Mary Jacobs (11:09): Clara Turner. Jim Colley (11:14): She never had to sit you up on a stool with a dunce cap on? Did you ever get a- Mary Jacobs (11:19): She whipped you in your hands. A strap. Jim Colley (11:22): Did she ever whip you? What'd you done wrong? Mary Jacobs (11:25): Jumped on another girl. Jim Colley (11:25): Ooh. Mary Jacobs (11:25): It was about my food. Jim Colley (11:31): She was after your- Mary Jacobs (11:32): She wanted it. I had a ham bone in it, and that girl [inaudible 00:11:36] wanted the ham bone. I didn't want her to have it. Jim Colley (11:32): And that was that. Mary Jacobs (11:32): That was that. Jim Colley (11:41): And you jumped her and you got your hands slapped on there. Mary Jacobs (11:44): I sure did. And stayed in, no recess. Jim Colley (11:47): Uh-oh. And that was punishment, too. Mary Jacobs (11:49): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jim Colley (11:51): Well, Ms. Jacobs, we've enjoyed talking with you this morning. We're glad that you let us come in and remind ourselves of some of your memories. I'm sure a lot of us out there in the listening audience remember train rides and schools and growing up games and some of those old songs that we used to sing to dance together. Mary Jacobs (12:09): That's right.

Jim Colley speaks with Mary Jacobs about activities growing up in Natchitoches from dances to riding trains.

Tags: natchitoches, trains, dance, oral history, oral history interview, national center for preservation technology and training, ncptt, podcast

April 4, 2024

27. Elizabeth Sutton

Transcript

Transcript

Jim Collie (00:01): Mrs. Sutton. We're glad to be visiting with you in your home. Welcome to the memories show. Elizebeth Sutton (00:05): Hello, now what do you want me to say? Jim Collie (00:08): We want to talk about what it was like growing up. Where were you born? Elizebeth Sutton (00:12): East Coushatta. Jim Collie (00:14): At Coushatta (00:15): What did your daddy do? Elizebeth Sutton (00:16): He was adopted. Jim Collie (00:18): And his name was? Elizebeth Sutton (00:19): Henry Brown, Dr. Henry Brown. Jim Collie (00:21): Before the show began, we were talking about some pretty remarkable medical things he had done. He was the third man to do a... Elizebeth Sutton (00:32): Appendix operation. Jim Collie (00:34): In the world? Elizebeth Sutton (00:35): First to do it in the south, and the other one did it up in Pennsylvania, and one did it in Austria. Jim Collie (00:42): How did he learn how to do the operation? Elizebeth Sutton (00:45): Studied books from this doctor in Austria. Jim Collie (00:49): What was that first operation like where was it? Elizebeth Sutton (00:51): Well, I don't know, I wasn't born then! Jim Collie (00:55): You heard him tell about it? Elizebeth Sutton (00:57): I read in the medical journal about it. I read his medical journals when I was a child. That's the way I got educated Jim Collie (01:04): Reading medical journals. Where did he do that first appendix operation? Elizebeth Sutton (01:08): Out in the country from Coushatta. Between Coushatta and Rango. Jim Collie (01:12): And who was the patient? Do you remember? Elizebeth Sutton (01:12): I don't know! I wasn't born. Jim Collie (01:16): It was a lady. Elizebeth Sutton (01:17): Uh-huh (affirmative). It was a lady. And my mother gave her the ether. Jim Collie (01:21): Your mother gave her the ether. Was that in her home? Elizebeth Sutton (01:24): In this lady's home. In her kitchen. Jim Collie (01:26): On the kitchen table, I guess. Elizebeth Sutton (01:28): Yeah, Jim Collie (01:28): That was quite an operation. Did he have much influence on medical stuff here? Did he go to Shreveport? Elizebeth Sutton (01:38): Oh yes. My mother had an uncle in Shreveport that was a doctor, and he'd called pop in for his operation. Jim Collie (01:45): So he taught folks how to do the surgery. Elizebeth Sutton (01:48): Oh appendix . Jim Collie (01:50): Did you ever participate in any of those operations? Elizebeth Sutton (01:54): Oh, no, but what I did was when I was about nine years old, he taught me how to give the ether and I give the ether for him to do little. Jim Collie (02:06): You didn't ever worry about it? Elizebeth Sutton (02:07): No, it didn't bother me. Curiosity, I wanted to see what went on. Jim Collie (02:14): What went on in those early operations? Elizebeth Sutton (02:16): Well, I don't remember too much, but I remember one night balling. My daddy had balled me out and he wasn't going to let that child give his child ether, my father told me to get out. Jim Collie (02:27): Uh oh, that was that! Elizebeth Sutton (02:30): That was back in East Point, and I was about 10 years old. And then I never did forget it, but I didn't know who the people were. And years later I was living up Shreveport dixie. And so people moved up there from East Point and I had met the lady, her husband and I went down to see her and her husband's father was there, and he asked me, she told him, here's the lady used to live at East Point and he asked me who I was. He says, well, you old Dr. Brown's daughter? And I said, yes. Which one? He had seven. I said, you said "you were not that he ugly little toe head that tried giving my boy ether, was you?" I said yes! So he remembered, I remembered. Jim Collie (03:23): You got caught. Elizebeth Sutton (03:25): He and it was a daddy or not that away said I shouldn't be raised Sam, but Dr. Brown put me out the office Jim Collie (03:36): It. Sure. Wasn't very easy being a doctor back in the early days. Elizebeth Sutton (03:39): Oh no, I had to ride horseback all the time and he leaves home sometime be gone a week before he got back home. They on his circuits. Sometime he leaved us to go down to one place and then you be a triple before he'd get back Jim Collie (03:57): You never knew when to expect. Elizebeth Sutton (03:58): no. Jim Collie (03:59): Did people pay money back in those days? Elizebeth Sutton (04:02): Not much. He said that when he retired, my mother said he never set a bill. People came and paid it. They had money that paid and didn't they'd brought, whatever they had corn, hay, meat. Jim Collie (04:19): So you always had plenty of food, but not a whole lot of money. Elizebeth Sutton (04:22): Well, he, collected, he did enough to buy a plantation over in tenses parish. Jim Collie (04:29): What was the name of that plantation? Elizebeth Sutton (04:31): Shackleford Jim Collie (04:32): Did you live there very long? Elizebeth Sutton (04:34): Oh, I stayed that one year, but I had to go to school. So they put me over here. Jim Collie (04:41): Where'd you Go to school? Elizebeth Sutton (04:42): Here at the normal Jim Collie (04:44): How old were you when you came to school? Elizebeth Sutton (04:44): 14 years old. Jim Collie (04:47): 14 at the normal school. When did you graduate? Elizebeth Sutton (04:51): Oh late 19 8. Jim Collie (04:55): 1908 I didn't realize the school was that old? Elizebeth Sutton (05:00): Oh, yes. It was a big school when I was at it. It was 300 students. Jim Collie (05:06): Did they all live in dormitories on campus? Elizebeth Sutton (05:09): We had dormitories yes. Have had oh three dormitories and the dining hall and a matron's hall, then two school buildings a college building and a grade school building. Jim Collie (05:26): Well, that was quite a complex. Elizebeth Sutton (05:28): Yeah and to see the way these kids do now, we couldn't leave that ground like that. We had to go to the matron hall and sign out that we were going and the only time where you could go was on Wednesday evenings. We could go to town, do a little shopping . Jim Collie (05:46): So you didn't even go to church Elizebeth Sutton (05:49): Sunday we'd go to church, but we mustn't stopped and talked to boys, we weren't allowed to do that. Jim Collie (05:55): What happened if they caught you talking to a boy? Elizebeth Sutton (05:57): They punished us. Jim Collie (05:59): How did you get punished? Elizebeth Sutton (06:00): Like talking to my cousin, I stopped. I met my cousin. I was with my girl cousin. And we met her brother. And we had been raised just like a modern family. And her brother laid up or Steve and Jewish Steven were together and they knew us. And they'd say, come on, get an ice cream. So we went and got ice cream and then somebody reported us. And I said "well, I thought it was all right talking with my cousin.” Jim Collie (06:35): Can't even talk to a cousin. What did they do to punish you and make you stay in the room? Elizebeth Sutton (06:40): Well no, we couldn't go outside. We couldn't go anywhere after two weeks. Jim Collie (06:46): Well, that's terrible. And look how these students get away with things nowadays. Elizebeth Sutton (06:52): And look at them! (06:52): And when we went to class room, we had to be dressed correctly. I went one day in hurry and I forgot to put my belt on and I was scared to death. The whole day of the teachers go send me home because I didn't have my belt on. Jim Collie (07:09): How did you dress to go to class? What kind of clothes did you wear? Elizebeth Sutton (07:17): Well, what you would wear on the streets. Jim Collie (07:17): Was it a long dress and Elizebeth Sutton (07:20): Oh yeah, they were long then we wore long dresses. Jim Collie (07:23): And, and wrist length blouses. Elizebeth Sutton (07:26): Oh yes. Jim Collie (07:27): even in the hot weather. Elizebeth Sutton (07:28): Uh huh. Jim Collie (07:29): and your hair in a bun. Did you have to put your hair up? Elizebeth Sutton (07:32): Oh yeah. You must go. You have to be dressed correctly. Jim Collie (07:37): That was pretty hard way to live Elizebeth Sutton (07:38): No it wasn't then . But we had to check in and then when we came back, we had to go report in. We had to be in before five o'clock. We were never allowed out after that Jim Collie (07:53): My goodness. That was pretty early Ms. Sutton. We're going to take a break right now for a commercial message from people's bank and trust, but we'll be back in just a minute. (08:05): This is Jim Collie on the memory show. And we're visiting with Mrs. Elizabeth Sutton in her home on Pine street. We'd like to talk about what Natchitoches was like when you first moved here. When did you move here? First Mrs Sutton? Elizebeth Sutton (08:22): 19 and nine. Jim Collie (08:23): 19 and nine. What was Natchitoches like? Elizebeth Sutton (08:26): Oh please. It was with the college and all a town of 500. Jim Collie (08:31): That was total. Golly, not very many homes. Elizebeth Sutton (08:35): Well, no, this house was here that has over there and this and that on the corner. The dirt was a foot deep in the streets when we came in about this. But then there weren't many sidewalks much, we lived up on, up on what we call it a hill up there. Oh, close to Texas street. Well 30th street running into Texas street, my sister-in-law Mrs black. She lived on the corner and we lived next to them and the Abrams lived up the hill. There were plenty of children. They all played in the street. Cause it wasn't any sidewalk. Jim Collie (09:22): Who else lived up on the hill. You mentioned the Blanchards and the Aarons . Elizebeth Sutton (09:31): The Abrams, the Blanchards , and the Hans Jim Collie (09:33): That was where most of the people lived up on The hill? Elizebeth Sutton (09:37): Good many of them on the street back of us, usually back there. Then the car was bought and built back there. The Scarborough lived back up there. But the town was small. And Over there, there was hardly anybody. Jim Collie (09:54): Nobody Lived over there. And the people that did you didn't care for, huh? Elizebeth Sutton (09:57): Oh yeah. A few people lived over there, but they were just digging right along Williams avenue. There's four or five houses. And but there weren't many. Jim Collie (10:11): On your way to town from the hill, did you pass by the Jewish synagogue? Elizebeth Sutton (10:16): Oh no. The Jewish cemetery was way back over there Jim Collie (10:19): Where, is the Jewish cemetery? Elizebeth Sutton (10:22): I don't want the six seventh street back. Jim Collie (10:23): I don't think I've ever seen it. Elizebeth Sutton (10:26): It's back, way back, that way. But see, we lived on third street. That Jewish cemetery was further back. The Catholics lived here. They lived on second street and then some on Washington street, not Washington uh Jefferson. You know where the Catholics lived up and they were friends of mine and they used to come and get me to go up to the Jewish cemetery with them. They love to go up there as the reading on you. It, Jim Collie (10:58): There used to be a synagogue here. A Jewish church? Elizebeth Sutton (11:01): yeah. Jim Collie (11:02): Where was that? Elizebeth Sutton (11:03): On second street. And then after they stopped having a church the whole Catholics got a kindergarten. Jim Collie (11:13): And I think they've torn that building down now. Haven't they? Elizebeth Sutton (11:16): I believe they have, yeah. Jim Collie (11:18): It's right behind the Ford Motor Company? Elizebeth Sutton (11:20): Yeah. Uh huh. No , right behind Ford Motor Company that's were the old Baptist church was. Now I when I came here there was just a Catholic church and a presbyterian church and the Methodist. They had a Baptist was up there in front of where Sears Roebuck is. Somewhere along there. Not its not Sears Roebuck. Yes. Sears Roebuck is up there. Jim Collie (11:46): So you and Mr. Sutton moved off the hill and over here by the American cemetery. Elizebeth Sutton (11:51): We went to up to Shreveport, then then we came back. We bought here, we stayed up there and I had a three children ready to go to college. So we came on back down here. Yeah. Jim Collie (11:51): Ms. Sutton, you were telling me during the commercial break that you're 87 years old. And that you're just about to go back to your kitchen and do what? Elizebeth Sutton (11:51): Make jelly. Jim Collie (11:51): You're making jelly. Where did you get the stuff to make jelly out of? Elizebeth Sutton (11:51): Oh, went down, along the highway and picked berries. Jim Collie (11:51): What kind of berries you got? Elizebeth Sutton (11:51): blueberries, and blackberries mixed I don't know exactly what I brought here. We stayed up there and I had three, children ready for college. So we came on back down.

Jim Collie speaks with Elizabeth Sutton about her education growing up in Couschatta and Natchitoches.

Tags: education, natchitoches, medical doctor, ncptt, national center for preservation technology and training, podcast, oral history, oral history interview

March 21, 2024

26. Eugene Montgomery

Transcript

Transcript

Hubert Laster (00:02): This morning, we're going to be visiting with Mr. Gene Montgomery down Bellwood way. I'm Hubert Laster and this is the Memories Program. (00:12): Mr. Montgomery, you were talking about medicine and how it was when you were a boy. Tell me about some of the home remedies that your parents used? Eugene Montgomery (00:25): Well, there's one of them for the pneumonia would be putting turpentine stupes hot on his chest. Hubert Laster (00:36): Now what is that? Eugene Montgomery (00:37): That's turpentine mixed with water. Hubert Laster (00:41): And you just soak it in a rag? Eugene Montgomery (00:43): Rag, put it on a rag. It kind of pull on chest. Hubert Laster (00:47): Does it work? Eugene Montgomery (00:48): Yes, sir. Hubert Laster (00:50): Didn't kill nobody? Eugene Montgomery (00:51): No. Hubert Laster (00:52): Saved a lot of lives? Eugene Montgomery (00:53): Yeah. Hubert Laster (00:58): Well, I know that you were raised on a farm. And I know that most of the things that you raised you ate, and you didn't get to sell very much. So tell me about how you preserved meat. Eugene Montgomery (01:13): Well, the hog meat would be killed in winter when it was cold. Soldered down and then smoke it after it lay about 10 days. Hubert Laster (01:29): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (01:30): And then smoke it for until it get good and brown. Hubert Laster (01:35): Now this is a slow fire? Eugene Montgomery (01:37): It's just a slow fire. Hubert Laster (01:39): Hardwood fire. What kind of wood is the best for smoking? Eugene Montgomery (01:42): Well, use hickory mostly. Hubert Laster (01:46): Can't find no hickory trees hardly no more, you know that don't you? Eugene Montgomery (01:50): Well, I got plenty of them. Hubert Laster (01:50): You Do? Okay, don't tell nobody. What about sausage? Do you remember how to make sausage? Eugene Montgomery (01:57): Well, they ground the meat with a hand machine. Hubert Laster (02:00): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (02:02): Then they season it with sage and pepper. Hubert Laster (02:07): What, equal parts or what? Eugene Montgomery (02:09): Well, there's so much pepper and so much sage. I don't whether it was just exactly equal or not, but see, they wanted it ... Depending on how hot they wanted the sausage about how much pepper they put, they put black pepper and red pepper. Hubert Laster (02:26): That made it good. Eugene Montgomery (02:27): Yeah. I mean, that sage gave it the flavor. Hubert Laster (02:30): Do you still make it? Eugene Montgomery (02:32): No, sir. I don't. Hubert Laster (02:34): Well, is the sausage nowadays as good as it was then? Eugene Montgomery (02:37): No, sir. Hubert Laster (02:38): Is that right? Eugene Montgomery (02:44): No [crosstalk 00:02:45]. Hubert Laster (02:45): Did you all make lye soap? Eugene Montgomery (02:46): Yes, sir. Hubert Laster (02:49): How about lye hominy? Eugene Montgomery (02:52): Yeah. Hubert Laster (02:54): Okay. I want to know, how did you not make lye hominy? Eugene Montgomery (03:00): You take corn, you shelled it. Just dry corn and shell it. Put it in a vessel and take wood ashes. Hubert Laster (03:11): Yeah? Eugene Montgomery (03:12): Hardwood ashes spread on top of it, that is in the water. And soak it for about 24 hours. Hubert Laster (03:21): And then what'd you do with it? Eugene Montgomery (03:23): Take it out, wash it, pull the outside skin off of them and wash it until you got all the ashes out it, clean. Hubert Laster (03:35): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (03:35): Then cook it. Hubert Laster (03:35): And cook it. Eugene Montgomery (03:39): Put it in a vessel and cooked it. Hubert Laster (03:41): And how long would lye hominy sit after that? Eugene Montgomery (03:46): Well, about two or three days is as long as you could keep it unless you put it in jars or something like that. Hubert Laster (03:56): How long would it keep like that, after you put it in jars? Eugene Montgomery (04:00): Oh, it'd keep six months or longer. Hubert Laster (04:02): Six months, how about that. You've lived in this community all your life. Eugene Montgomery (04:10): Yes, sir. Hubert Laster (04:11): I was talking to a fellow down the road and he was telling me they used to make a lot of whiskey around here. Eugene Montgomery (04:17): Yeah. Hubert Laster (04:18): Yeah? Eugene Montgomery (04:18): I never did make [crosstalk 00:04:19]. Hubert Laster (04:21): Okay. Do you remember, was this when prohibition was in? Eugene Montgomery (04:26): Yes, sir. Hubert Laster (04:29): A lot of people make money like that? Eugene Montgomery (04:31): Well, several of them did. Hubert Laster (04:33): And you know who they were, but we can't talk about names. Eugene Montgomery (04:40): No. Several of them made it. And some of them could make it better than others could. I guess they'd used a different process of it. Hubert Laster (04:50): Do you know anything about the processes? Eugene Montgomery (04:53): Well, nothing than more than just reading after. I never did see one them ... Actually, the stills have made it. Hubert Laster (05:01): I see. Well, what about any other alcoholic beverages? Eugene Montgomery (05:05): Well, they made beer. Beer was made with grain, corn and sugar and water, or syrup and water. Hubert Laster (05:20): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (05:21): Either one. You could sugar or syrup, either one. Hubert Laster (05:25): And how'd you do it? Eugene Montgomery (05:26): Put it in a wooden container. Hubert Laster (05:30): Yeah. Eugene Montgomery (05:33): A barrel, usually out of [inaudible 00:05:33]. Anywhere from 30 to 40, 50 gallons barrel [crosstalk 00:05:39] up. Used about a half a bushel of corn and it fermented for about 10 to 15 days, then it was ready to- Hubert Laster (05:52): To drink. Eugene Montgomery (05:53): Right. Hubert Laster (05:54): Did you strain it any way? Eugene Montgomery (05:58): Not too much of it, just a little. Hubert Laster (06:02): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (06:03): Sometimes would be a little trash in there, but- Hubert Laster (06:06): But not enough to bother you. Eugene Montgomery (06:07): No. Hubert Laster (06:08): Was it good? Eugene Montgomery (06:09): Yes, sir. If- Hubert Laster (06:09): When you ... Go ahead. Eugene Montgomery (06:14): If it was strong enough, it was intoxicated. Hubert Laster (06:19): I see. Okay. We need to take a break right now for a word from our sponsors, Peoples Bank & Trust. (06:33): In case you've just joined us, this is Hubert Laster and we're visit with Mr. Gene Montgomery on the Memories Program. You want to talk about lye soap? Eugene Montgomery (06:44): To make lye soap they taken the ashes from hardwood, oak especially. Hubert Laster (06:51): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (06:52): It would make a stronger lye and wouldn't take quite as much. And saved them, kept them dry and put them in a barrel and put up on. Then when they got the barrel full, they put vessels under the edge of the table that had it sitting on and let it drip in there and added water on top. And when it got so much or what the needed there or what the barrel would make, they'd put it in a wash pot and boil it. And then cracked them from cooking out grease, fat from the hogs or using some ranching grease. Hubert Laster (07:39): And this made soap? Eugene Montgomery (07:42): Soap. And it wasn't a hard soap, but it was a soft soap. You could pick it up with your hand and use it. Hubert Laster (07:52): Now I've heard stories about that it eat your skin off. Eugene Montgomery (07:55): Well, it never did eat any of mine off, but it was pretty strong. Some of it was. Hubert Laster (08:04): What about when you were a boy and you were going to school? Eugene Montgomery (08:09): The first few days I went to school, just one room school. And the teacher was Philip Koons, and he just had one room that he taught from the first to seventh or eighth grade. Hubert Laster (08:26): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (08:27): And it had anywhere from 30 to 40 to 50, 60 pupils. Hubert Laster (08:34): What was the age range on these pupils? Eugene Montgomery (08:37): Well, anywhere from about six, seven years of age, up to 18 or 20. Hubert Laster (08:45): 18 or 20. Okay. Eugene Montgomery (08:47): And about the second or third day I went to school, he whipped two about half-grown boys that made the smaller ones afraid to do anything, afraid to get a whipping there. And he used what we call a black gun switch, about- Hubert Laster (09:11): What's so bad about a black gun switch? Eugene Montgomery (09:14): It was tough. Hubert Laster (09:15): Aah. He didn't try to break it on anybody, did he? Eugene Montgomery (09:18): No, he didn't break it on ... Sometimes he'd [inaudible 00:09:22] it up. Hubert Laster (09:22): Woo-hoo. Sound like it's going to hurt. What about this road out there? Do you remember anything about the road? Eugene Montgomery (09:32): Oh yes, I worked on it some myself you. And it was built in fall of 1924 and '25. Hubert Laster (09:42): This is 117? Eugene Montgomery (09:44): Yes, 117. Hubert Laster (09:47): Was it gravel road then? Eugene Montgomery (09:49): Yeah, they put gravel on it after they got it completed. They finished it up from [inaudible 00:09:57] to Kisatchie in 1925. Hubert Laster (10:02): 1925. You know any funny stories connected with that road? Eugene Montgomery (10:08): Well, there's a fellow talking about camping. When working on the road, camp, and they was telling stories. One fellow, he was pretty aged and he was pretty good telling stories on, and they called him Uncle Tom. And they all let him told us stories, asked him to tell one. He told one, and the one he told was about, he was out in swamp where there lots of mosquitoes. Hubert Laster (10:43): Uh-huh (affirmative). Eugene Montgomery (10:44): And he turned the wash pot over him to keep them from biting him. And said they stuck the bill through the pot, and he'd taken his [inaudible 00:10:55]. And after a while they got so many of them on the outside of it until he picked the pot up and taken it off with them. Hubert Laster (11:05): Now that's a tall tale. Mr. Gene, we've enjoyed visiting with you today. Eugene Montgomery (11:12): Nice. Well, I enjoy with you too.

Hubert Laster speaks with Eugene Montgomery talks about growing up on a farm in Natchitoches and the different foods, remedies, and commodities that they would make.

Tags: natchitoches, memories podcast, oral history interview, oral history, farming, medicine, prohibition, lye, ncptt, national center for preservation technology and training, podcast

March 7, 2024

25. H.L. Hughes

Transcript

Transcript

Jim Cawley (00:01): This is Jim Cawley and we're visiting with Mr. Hughes on Memories. Mr. Hughes, welcome to the show. Mr. Hughes (00:07): Well, I appreciate it very much, you asking me up here. Jim Cawley (00:10): We're glad to have you. You grew up around Natchitoches? Mr. Hughes (00:10): Yes, sir. Jim Cawley (00:13): What was Natchitoches like when you were growing up? Mr. Hughes (00:15): Well, it was a country town, just like all the rest of them was, in Louisiana, at least. Now, I went to school up here, to college. We called it at that time the [normal 00:00:28]. President Colwell was the president when I first came up here. They tell me, the first day that I arrived... I didn't want to go inside of one of the these pretty buildings they had up here. In those days they were all wood of course, but I liked to pull up a... Let me see what kind of tree it was. A cedar tree, over here in front of Colwell Hall, which was painted blue and burned down here several years ago. Remember, you heard about it. You too young [inaudible 00:00:59] It burned down about 20 years ago. Jim Cawley (01:02): How did you pull up a cedar tree? Mr. Hughes (01:04): Well, I didn't pull it up. That is fictitious, just talking, but I said I'd like to put it up, just grabbed it around the waist, I'd call it, and hooked onto it and they couldn't get me loose to bring me inside. I'll tell you who was inside. I was going in to see Ms. Lawless Porter, who was, at that time, a teacher here in the first grade. She was also later married to Judge Porter, who was our district judge, and later became our circuit court judge. I'm a lawyer by profession. I know him well. I never did practice under him, because I was too young even to practice under him. He died before, while he was away from here. You see? Jim Cawley (01:45): Was life like? Did you have all the modern conveniences? Mr. Hughes (01:48): We didn't have any conveniences at all, in those days, because just like every other town, we had no electricity. We had no running water. We had no lights or whatever. I mentioned electricity. We could have had gas, but we didn't have gas or electricity. We didn't have any of them, any of the conveniences that you know today. Now, I remember very well, when the circus would come to town, they didn't have water for the elephants at the town, so they'd have to bring them down to Chaplin, what we knew as Chaplin Lake, to wash them off and give them a bath, and also to let them drink. Jim Cawley (02:27): The circus was a big deal for kids? Mr. Hughes (02:30): Absolutely. For everybody. For the grownups and the kids. I used to water the elephants, if I could, because my house was on Fourth Street. Let's see. Right behind my house, the circus people always stopped their train, for about a mile long from the college grounds, all the way up to my house on, as I've said a while ago, on Eight and... No. Did I say Eighth? Jim Cawley (02:59): Fourth Street? Mr. Hughes (03:00): Fourth and [Buard 00:03:03] Street. We owned everything from all the way back to the next street, which would be Fifth Street. By the way, I rent those houses back there. They're the same price I rented them 25 years ago, $120 [inaudible 00:03:15] Jim Cawley (03:15): You've mentioned that, when you're growing up in Natchitoches, you remember someone who lit the streetlights. Mr. Hughes (03:20): Yeah. I mentioned it. Paul [Slaught 00:03:22]. Jim Cawley (03:22): Paul Slaught. Mr. Hughes (03:23): He was a colored man. He used to go around with his little ladder and he'd climb up on a post and light every, he'd have to open the door of each and every light, and he'd light it. He'd climb down, take his little latter with him and go to the next corner, light it. He'd go to every town in town that had a light on. Every morning you'd have to repeat and unlight them, or put them out. Jim Cawley (03:47): What did you burn in those lights? Mr. Hughes (03:48): We burnt cool oil only. That's all we had in those days. Later on, I can tell you this. When we had electricity here, it was about 1900, if I remember correctly, about 1902, or 1903. We had an invasion of beetles. Big old, black beetles that used to come into town and they'd fly around these lights. I suppose the lights attract them, but after the third year, they disappeared completely and we never saw them again. But I was interested in them. We used to catch them and tie them with cord strings and threads and let them fly around [inaudible 00:04:28] stuff like that. Jim Cawley (04:29): Mr. Hughes will be right back with you after this word from Peoples Bank & Trust. Mr. Hughes (04:34): Is that who you're advertising? Jim Cawley (04:38): This is Jim Cawley and we're visiting with Mr. HL Hughes on Memories. Mr. Hughes, we talked before our taping session here, about your growing up in the political life of Natchitoches Parish. You probably knew Huey Long? Do you remember much about him? Mr. Hughes (04:54): Yeah. I was a member of the Round Robin outfit that saved Huey's life down in... Political life, I'd say. You know, one day I came up from New Orleans with Huey, onboard a train. That was in 1900... Well, it lasted a year. We signed the Round Robin. I think it was 1930. My memory doesn't serve me exactly right about that date, but anyway, we'll say 1930. Huey got out of the train with me, or rather I got out of the train with Huey, at the depot. We walked on up to the old Capitol Building and there was only one person, and that was the secretary of Huey, who at the time was Ms... From Freeport. What is that lady's name? Jim Cawley (05:41): She was the only one there to meet him? Mr. Hughes (05:42): She was Secretary of State later, because Huey made her a secretary. I told Huey, I said, "Huey, where's that Round Robin?" He said, "It's in a safe place." I said, "The heck it is. I want it in a very, very safe place. Not only for my own reasons, but for yours, because that's your life blood from now on." Jim Cawley (06:02): Now, tell me what the Round Robin was. I don't know what that is. Mr. Hughes (06:05): The Round Robin was a... I'd call it his, simply. It was a composition by somebody who now, we don't know who he was, but everybody's trying to claim it. Judge Perez of Plaquemines, he said he wrote it. Judge Orton said he wrote it. This judge and that judge said they wrote it. And various politicians all wrote it, but none of them wrote it, I don't suppose. I'd say Huey wrote it, myself. But anyway. Jim Cawley (06:40): It was a supportive, affirmative- Mr. Hughes (06:42): I'm going to tell you what it is. Jim Cawley (06:43): Okay. Mr. Hughes (06:43): It's nothing but a supportive, as you say, it supported his position as governor of Louisiana, and, of course, I will say, disrupted it entirely, the argument advanced by the other side, which is his enemies. They consisted of various people from Freeport and New Orleans, mostly, and the standard oil company. I was a bitterly against those kinds of people. I was bitterly against them. Not because I hated them or anything like that, but because of the poor... In Louisiana, we are rich now, compared to what we were in those days. Jim Cawley (07:16): And you felt like Huey Long was a good worker and you- Mr. Hughes (07:20): He was. Huey Long told me himself. He said, "Listen, I never go to bed before midnight." Which is true. "And I get up about sun up every morning. So I never spend over five hours in bed, at the most, out of the 24." I could give you a dozen experiences I've had with Huey, but I'm not going to do it. Jim Cawley (07:44): Okay. Mr. Hughes, we just got time for one more story. I wanted to ask you about the Spanish-American war. Mr. Hughes (07:50): Yeah. Well, about 1898, I believe the Spanish-American war was going on, and I believe, at that time, right after the Spanish-American war, Mr. Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, was elected president. All he did was ride up and down a hill, I understand, or down here at a San Juan, in [inaudible 00:08:11] Cuba. But anyway, I went down to the depot in Natchitoches, which was located, at that time, and all the time, on the railroad tracks, of course, but near the college. You could throw a baseball into the college grounds from where depot was situated. (08:27): While we were down there, I could see these boys kissing these girls. I was wondering, I was only six years old, because I was born in '92. This is about 1980, it might've been '97, it might've been '98. It might've been '98 and a half, but I don't remember the exact date. Do you understand? I remember very firmly and very well, we had no automobiles here, and I could safely walk the streets, or run the streets, if you want to say it, and when I got on that, we saw these boys kissing their girls. We saw the wives kissing their husbands good-bye. They left in all the glory of war. They came back very dejected looking, because they hadn't fought in a single battle and never left the United States, and they never left Florida. They got on there and some of them got sick. Got bitten by an ugly little mosquito. That's about all I can tell you about it. Jim Cawley (09:19): So old Natchitoches, Louisiana, had a part in the Spanish-American war? Mr. Hughes (09:22): Yes, sir. We had a whole troop in it. We also had a troop in every other war. Several in the civil war. I can tell you all about it, but I won't do that. Jim Cawley (09:33): Mr. Hughes, did you ever serve as an elected officer around here? Mr. Hughes (09:37): Yeah, I was elected from Red River and Natchitoches Parish, for four years in 1928 to 1932. Jim Cawley (09:45): What were you elected to? Mr. Hughes (09:45): I was elected to the state senate and I resigned immediately after my time was over. Jim Cawley (09:53): Did you ever have anything to do with the university while you were serving in Baton Rouge? Mr. Hughes (09:57): I graduated at LSU in 1913. I went to school first, at Holy Cross in New Orleans. I got my high school diploma there. I went from there on up to LSU, and from LSU I went down a Two Lane. I went to Harvard one year. I forgot about it. Jim Cawley (10:17): You were telling me about a story you had with Huey Long and the president of NSU. Mr. Hughes (10:23): Yeah. Jim Cawley (10:24): Would you tell us- Mr. Hughes (10:24): I thought I had. I don't know. Anyway. Yes. I believe I am responsible for [inaudible 00:10:33] being your president. Jim Cawley (10:33): How's that? Mr. Hughes (10:34): For this reason. When Huey suggested his name to me, I said, "[inaudible 00:10:41] would make a fine president." Huey said, "He hadn't got a degree." And I said, "Well, what do either of you got?" I knew he didn't have a degree. He says, "That's right. I haven't got a degree and I'm governor of this state." I said, "Well, can't you appoint him?" He says, "I sure will appoint him." That was the end of that. Jim Cawley (11:02): And that's how that happened. Mr. Hughes, we do appreciate visiting with you today.

Jim Cawley talks with H.L. Hughes about growing up in Natchitoches and being involved in law and politics in Natchitoches Parish.

Tags: natchitoches, louisiana, oral history

February 22, 2024

24. Elouise Owens

Transcript

Transcript

David Dollar (00:02): Hello, once again, and good morning. In case, you've just joined us this is David Dollar visiting the home of Ms. Elouise Owens today. Ms. Owens, we thank you for having us over in your home today and sharing some memories with us. Elouise Owens (00:12): I thank you for coming. David Dollar (00:13): Good. Why don't we start things off by you just giving us a little family background, where and when you were born. Elouise Owens (00:19): Well, I was born in [inaudible 00:00:20] Parish. David Dollar (00:21): Okay. Elouise Owens (00:22): 1915, November the 14th. David Dollar (00:23): All right. Elouise Owens (00:24): I'm 60 years old going on 61. David Dollar (00:27): That's right. Elouise Owens (00:28): And my family... I was raised down there below the airport, they call it the Fair Grounds now, but it used to be called Hickory Hill. David Dollar (00:36): Hickory Hill? Elouise Owens (00:36): That's right. David Dollar (00:38): That's a new one, I hadn't heard that [crosstalk 00:00:39]. Elouise Owens (00:39): Well, it was called Hickory Hill. And my father had a large family, which it was 14 of us, but we raised all of our food and vegetables and stuff. We had our own cows, our butter, we made our butter. We washed on [inaudible 00:00:53] boards. My mother used to make Lye soap, they call it. David Dollar (00:58): You remember how to make Lye soap? Elouise Owens (00:59): Yes, I do. I remember how to make Lye soap. David Dollar (01:01): How about telling me about right now? Elouise Owens (01:02): Well, you put your water and you take grease [inaudible 00:01:05] and you put it in the wash pot. David Dollar (01:08): What just regular bacon grease or something like that? Elouise Owens (01:08): Just any kind of grease. David Dollar (01:11): All right, just grease. Elouise Owens (01:12): And you put it in the wash [inaudible 00:01:14]. Then you put a flower around it and then you cook it. You put Lye in it and it's cooks into a jelly. Something like a gel. And then you set it up. And when it would get hard, like soup, you set it and then you cut like bars of soap. David Dollar (01:25): You just cut and you make the bars? Elouise Owens (01:27): Right and you cut your bars out. And also we had cows. We had mules. And horses and hogs and all that. We made our own bacon. And we had a thing you call a smoke house. David Dollar (01:39): Right. Elouise Owens (01:39): You used to put the meat in, hang it up in there and smoke it. My father used to salt it down and then he would take the salt and wash it off. And then he would put this brown sugar on it. And then he would hang it up, the hams and smoke the hams and smoke the bacon, right? And that's the way we live. We get our own corn to the meal, made our corn meal, and our grits. They had a man here on this land to the airport, they call him Mr. Recott. He had a corn grinder and we kids used to share all his corn and he would dig it up. Then he would grind so much in meal, and then he would make so much in grits. David Dollar (02:22): Grits is corn? I never knew that. Elouise Owens (02:23): Well it is. David Dollar (02:25): I've been eating grits all my life and I didn't know where it came from. Elouise Owens (02:27): Well it's the same thing. David Dollar (02:28): I'm glad you told me that. Elouise Owens (02:30): It's the same thing. And also we had our own [inaudible 00:02:33] and our own peanuts and popcorn. We raised all that sugar cane. Had another man down the road called Mr. Shepherd. He had... you know when you grind the cane and make the syrup. Grind the juice from the cane. They took the mule to it and the mule would go around and grind the juice. David Dollar (02:51): They had the mule hooked up to the wheel? Elouise Owens (02:56): That's right. The mule hooked up and go around and grind the juice for it. Then they get a big pan you put it on and they cook it down to the syrup. David Dollar (03:02): Right. Elouise Owens (03:03): And then they would get gallon buckets to put the syrup in. David Dollar (03:05): And you watched all this? Elouise Owens (03:08): I was big enough to help do something. [crosstalk 00:03:11]. David Dollar (03:08): Helping do it. Elouise Owens (03:10): Because we started the work early. All of us waked early at an early age. And I went to school at Rockford Baptist Church. It's down there now, but it's a new church. And I didn't get no further then sixth grade. And I can read and write pretty good. David Dollar (03:24): That sounds great. It's amazing that you had time enough to learn to read and write after all the stuff you've been telling me. [crosstalk 00:03:29] Elouise Owens (03:30): That's right. When I was back in school we had three months. We didn't get but three months. And just before I quit, I got about two years of this nine months school. David Dollar (03:38): Oh, yeah? Elouise Owens (03:38): That's right. But I went for the sixth grade and I can read and write very well. David Dollar (03:43): Well, that's good. I tell you what, let me interrupt you right here. Just for a second we're going to take a short little commercial and we'll be back to talk some more. Elouise Owens (03:50): Okay. David Dollar (03:51): Good. David Dollar visiting with Ms. Elouise Owens today. We'll be right back after this message from People's Bank, our sponsor. (04:06): Hello. Once again, in case you've just joined us. This is David Dollar visiting today in the home of Ms. Elouise Owens. You've got me tired already talking about all the things you all did when you were growing up. You said there were 14 children in the family? Elouise Owens (04:20): That's right. You see, I'm the only one my mother and father got, together. You see, my mother had three children and my father had nine when they got married. David Dollar (04:30): Right. Elouise Owens (04:30): And I come along. David Dollar (04:31): And there you were. Elouise Owens (04:37): There I was. David Dollar (04:37): You rounded it out. Elouise Owens (04:37): I summed it up. And so then in my time with all the girls, most them was grown and I had a bunch of boys to play with. David Dollar (04:43): How did y'all play? Elouise Owens (04:43): Well we played marbles. Shooting marbles. You know what marbles is? David Dollar (04:43): Yeah. Elouise Owens (04:46): We played shooting marbles. We played ball. We played hide and go seek. David Dollar (04:51): You were a pretty good marble shooter? Elouise Owens (04:53): Yeah. I used to beat them boys sometimes. I cheat on one, I beat them but cheated... David Dollar (04:57): I remember every time we ever let our little sisters play and they beat us, we never let them play with us anymore. Elouise Owens (05:06): They used to do me that, but I [inaudible 00:05:07]. David Dollar (05:06): Yeah. Elouise Owens (05:07): They used to [inaudible 00:05:08]. And we used to take a nickel or dime and pitch to them. Lagging. David Dollar (05:11): Lagging. Oh, yeah. I've been lagging before. Elouise Owens (05:13): I would win in the morning and then I would play no more. I'd go away for the day. David Dollar (05:17): You wouldn't give them a chance to get their money back, uh? Elouise Owens (05:19): No, a man used to pass us in the wagon selling can and stuff on the sun and I put my money up for the [inaudible 00:05:23]. David Dollar (05:23): There ya go. You had it. Elouise Owens (05:26): Yeah. But we had a good time. It had a bar right there in front of our house. It's called [inaudible 00:05:31]. They stopped it up though. I know you can't tell where the bar is because I can't tell where we used to live down there anymore. And during the winter time, my father used to keep his news. Everybody passed down a Timor, LayMor, the kind of cars they had. He pulled them out. [inaudible 00:05:48]. He put them out. (05:50): Then we, I have picked cotton for 50 cents a hundred. Pick cotton for 50 cents a hundred. My daddy used to let us go pick on the Fridays and Saturdays till 12, after out of his field would make our little chain. That way we get back a little bit. So if we had half the time back then we didn't have all what the people have now. But we live happy and we didn't have to go to the store for everything we used. David Dollar (06:16): You sound like you had everything anybody could ever want. Elouise Owens (06:17): We did. We lived a real happy life and we raised all our stuff mostly at home. Did most things. Our father would go to the store and buy sugar and coffee and things like that we couldn't raise. But all this other stuff, like the people who go buy grease. [inaudible 00:06:32]. Make our hogs fat. Yeah them are the good ole days. David Dollar (06:38): Let me ask you this. What do you think? What could you tell the young people up to date? Tell you what that last Saturday I just got married. What could you tell a young married couple today, growing up in all the times that we've got, all the hard stuff and the hard times that we've got, what could you give me? If you could to make me live and make those times good again? What do you think we're missing today? Elouise Owens (07:07): I think y'all missing a very happy time because now the people that have everything, they ain't happy as we was in my childhood. David Dollar (07:14): What's the difference? You know, like you said, we've got a lot more things. Elouise Owens (07:17): I know but... David Dollar (07:19): What's missing? Elouise Owens (07:20): Confusion I think in the world and from the children on... not as happy. You buy them bicycles. We never had a bike. We used to make things you call Tom Walkers. You know? David Dollar (07:30): No. Elouise Owens (07:30): We used to make them with cans. [Crosstalk 00:07:32] and me and my brothers we used to get on them with rope. Those were our horses. David Dollar (07:39): You call those Tom Walkers? Elouise Owens (07:40): Tom Walkers. And some of them used to make them with sticks, but they was too high for me. So I made mine with cans. David Dollar (07:45): Cans and string and you'd walk on them? [crosstalk 00:07:50] Elouise Owens (07:49): That's right. That's the kind of fun we use to have. David Dollar (07:52): So you think we need to get more simple? Elouise Owens (07:55): Right. David Dollar (07:55): We got too much junk in our lives. Elouise Owens (07:57): That's right. Exactly. They have... David Dollar (07:59): Gets us all confused. Elouise Owens (08:00): That's right. David Dollar (08:01): Get back to the simple things, we'd have a better time. Elouise Owens (08:04): The more they have, the more they want. And I don't think they're quite as happy as I was in my childhood. David Dollar (08:12): When I tell you what, this has been mighty interesting. Tell you what we try to do, just about out of time... We try to close up our program every day with what we call a closing memory. You know, if there's any one thing that stands out in your mind about when you were growing up. Elouise Owens (08:29): Yeah, I've got one. David Dollar (08:30): All right. Why don't you tell us... Elouise Owens (08:31): One time when that bar was full of water, me and my baby brother jumped in there and went swimming. And I liked the guy, John and my mother whipped me with the wet coveralls on. I had some [inaudible 00:08:41] and that's a good memory. David Dollar (08:42): You and your little brother out in the bar when you shouldn't have been? Elouise Owens (08:42): That's right. And I got a whipping with the wet coveralls on. David Dollar (08:54): Yeah and that's something you always remember. Elouise Owens (08:54): I'll always remember that and I got a good whipping with the wet coveralls on. People call them jumpsuits now but they were coveralls. David Dollar (09:04): We got a big fashion item now called jumpsuits [crosstalk 00:09:06] and you had them 50 years ago. Elouise Owens (09:08): That's right. Sure did. I tell them that by these long dresses, I wore that when I was a girl. They call them Maxis now but in those we called them frocks. The same thing, but it's a different name. David Dollar (09:20): And that's all you had then. Now you're all uptown and fancy if you wear all that. Elouise Owens (09:24): Sure is. I've got some of them now but I'd wear them when I was girl. David Dollar (09:24): That's right. Elouise Owens (09:30): And going back to the bonnet days, I got me a bonnet. I used to wear them when I was a child. You know, growing up. We never had hats, no more than sun hats. We had bonnets. David Dollar (09:37): Yeah. Well, Ms. Owens we sure thank you for sharing all this with us. You've helped me out. I found out what grits were. I've been eating them all my life, now I know what grits are now. Elouise Owens (09:49): Grits is corn. David Dollar (09:49): Great. I'm glad to know that. We thank you again for having us in your home. Elouise Owens (09:53): You're very welcome.

David Dollar talks with Elouise Owens about growing up in Natchitoches, working and playing with her 13 siblings.

Tags: natchitoches, louisiana, oral history interview, childhood

February 6, 2024

23. Alonzo Plummer, Cont

Transcript

Transcript

David Dollar (00:01):

Hello again. In case you just joined us. I'm David Dollar. We're going to visit this morning again with Mr. Alonzo Plummer. I think we're going to try to talk a little bit about education this morning. So Mr. Plummer, why don't you take it from there and do what you will with it?

Alonzo Plummer (00:14):

Oh, okay. Well, I'm going back to Nebo again.

David Dollar (00:14):

Good.

Alonzo Plummer (00:20):

There was a typical thing that happened that's probably... You wouldn't, most of you understand the sanitary facilities that had to do with that school, it was very simple and natural. The boys had the north side of the road and the girls, the south side in the woods. This except for the fact that most of them didn't have a creek to use for refrigeration purposes, this was a typical country school. I would say over the south, not just in Louisiana, but over the south. My mother and father realized, they were ambitious for us. And they realized that the facilities there were altogether inadequate. And they had read of this normal school at Natchitoches and decided to move to Natchitoches. So the family moved in 19 and three to 110 Casbury Street there in Natchitoches ... Normal Hill, as it was called at that time.

(01:57):

And as Louisiana state normal school didn't have one brick building on it. Every building was a wooden building. The two buildings that housed the classrooms and other educational facilities, one of them was about in the position that the old science building that burned down was in and the other just across the driveway from it was known as a model school. And that model school took in from the beginners up to oh, about seventh or eighth grade. And that was the only school below the normal level, except for a short time, Mr. Greeno ran a private school on... In the position that's now occupied by the parking lot that is provided by the police jury here in this parish.

David Dollar (03:26):

Right? Right.

Alonzo Plummer (03:31):

I came to school here, entered the third grade with a miss Henrietta Lewis as teacher. I think all of us loved Ms. Lewis. She was a fine person. I was in school here for then continuously for five years. We had this advantage and the organization and the school was such that it was in four months terms and there were three, four months terms in a year. And we could go to school 12 months in the year. Well, a part of the time I did that. And the part of the time I worked during the summer, even as a child.

David Dollar (04:34):

This allowed the children to help their parents then doing crops and things like that during the rotation series.

Alonzo Plummer (04:42):

My family lived here in Natchitoches. The crop situation didn't come into the picture for us, but it.

David Dollar (04:50):

It did for some others, then.

Alonzo Plummer (04:52):

It did for some of the people. However, I'll say that to emphasize the fact that most of the schools outside of the centers, the wealthier centers of population, or these little one room schools there was at the time and it existed for a number of years after we came here in 19 and three, there was a school that's now on very near where the valley electric company is. That close end operated a one room.

David Dollar (05:39):

Well I'll be darned. Mr. Plummer, let me interrupt you right here. We've got to take a commercial break right now. A little word from our sponsors, the folks at People's Bank and Trust Company.

(05:56):

In case you just joined us. This is David dollar. We're visiting this morning again with Mr. Alonzo Plummer on memories. Mr. Plummer, we've been talking a little bit about education. Why don't we skip just a few years after you left the normal school here, when you yourself began teaching. Why don't you start there with it?

Alonzo Plummer (06:15):

Well, that was [inaudible 00:06:17] considerably in 19 and eight at the mature age of 15, I was a teacher in one of those little one room schools down close to Bichico in what was then St. Landry Parish. It's now Evangeline Parish. I began the process then, the next year I didn't go to school. And then the following year during the summer, I had ... I happened to be in one of the classes taught by Mr. D.G. Lonsberry, who was superintendent of schools in east Louisiana Parish. Well, the state had become more involved in public education, and they were promoting consolidation of these country schools. So he offered me the principalship of the Bluff Creek Consolidated School in east Louisiana Parish.

David Dollar (07:28):

And how old were you at this time?

Alonzo Plummer (07:31):

I was 17 at that time.

David Dollar (07:34):

17 and a principal?

Alonzo Plummer (07:34):

That's right.

David Dollar (07:35):

My goodness.

Alonzo Plummer (07:36):

And the faculty, three besides myself, the oldest one of them was 19. And they had come up somewhat in the same fashion that I had.

David Dollar (07:57):

What was one of the reasons that the state was pushing for this consolidated school now?

Alonzo Plummer (08:04):

Well, there were many reasons people could readily see that the one room school was not the answer. The thing that retarded that thing the most was roads and transportation.

David Dollar (08:22):

Transportation. I can understand that.

Alonzo Plummer (08:25):

And they were very, very ... well, in fact, no improved roads, you might say, in the state. In fact, right here in Natchitoches Parish. When I came to Natchitoches there was not an improved road running into Natchitoches. Not a one. I don't mean even a gravel road.

David Dollar (08:45):

Even with the college here?

Alonzo Plummer (08:46):

That's right.

David Dollar (08:48):

Not a road? My goodness.

Alonzo Plummer (08:49):

Not a one. And the original pavement on Front Street was going on, and that was the first piece of pavement in the city of Natchitoches.

David Dollar (09:00):

My goodness.

Alonzo Plummer (09:00):

That was in 19 and three.

David Dollar (09:03):

So you were in about 19... What? Eight or 10 or so? Something like that. You were teaching as well as coming back to normal here, working on your degree, is that true?

Alonzo Plummer (09:15):

Well, we didn't think about degrees then the old normal was not a college and that is it. Wasn't a four year college that offered a degree. But I was alternating teaching ...

David Dollar (09:30):

An education, yourself? Being a teacher and a student and a principal all at the same time?

Alonzo Plummer (09:33):

Yeah, that's right. Going on.

David Dollar (09:35):

That's pretty unique. Let me interrupt you one more time for a commercial message from our sponsors this morning, People's Bank and Trust Company. We'll be right back.

(09:47):

Mr. Plummer. We like to close our programs with a closing memory. If you've got something you can share with us, why don't you do that at this time?

Alonzo Plummer (09:54):

This sticks in my memory, I don't know that it's significant from any very ... a great point of view, but I remember a student who felt like always that he was being picked on. And he was a regular problem. The boys wanted to be nice to him, but, you know, they would pick at him a little. And I remember one incident, Victor connected with it. He had got him a new top coat. Very proud of it. And in coming downstairs for a recess period, the boys, a number of them had taken their finger and mark... that is put pressure up and down his back. And the others would say, well, now I wouldn't mark that boy up like that. I just wouldn't ruin his coat by putting praying marks all over it. So he came in tears to me, down in the office telling that tale.

(11:16):

And I said, well, and he was sincere in it. I said, now that's pretty bad, but are you sure? I had seen the back of his coat and he had. Are you sure that they did that? Oh, yes. I sure. Well, I had him take off his coat and hanging up on the [inaudible 00:11:39] there in the office was back toward him. And he saw it. Well, he just liked to fainted.

David Dollar (11:47):

Cause he ...

Alonzo Plummer (11:48):

And he had... it brought the whole picture to him about the type of thing that he had been doing that caused him not to get along well with people.

David Dollar (12:00):

Well, I...

Alonzo Plummer (12:02):

And he was pretty much of a changed person.

David Dollar (12:05):

Well, that's great. Things are not always what we think they are. Are they?

Alonzo Plummer (12:09):

They sure are.

David Dollar (12:10):

So that's a lesson that we all could learn. We'd like to, to thank you, Mr. Plummer for joining us again today on Memories. If you folks enjoyed the show today, if you were listening, why don't you let the folks at People's Bank know about it?

David Dollar continues his conversation with Alonzo Plummer.

Tags: natchitoches, oral history, louisiana, infrastructure, education

January 25, 2024

22. Alonzo Plummer

Transcript

Transcript

David Dollar (00:01): Hi. In case you just joined us, this is David Dollar. We're going to visit this morning with Mr. Alonzo Plummer of Natchitoches on Memories. Mr. Plummer, why don't you start things off, just tell us a little bit about yourself?

Alonzo Plummer (00:13): Well, to begin with my father, Allen Leroy Plummer, was a Civil War veteran. My mother was Nora Squyres. They married when he was 40 and she 20. There are four of us of the family. This was at Summerville. I was born at Summerville, Louisiana in 1893. In 1896, my family moved to the community of Nebo near Catahoula Lake over in what is now La Salle parish.

Alonzo Plummer (01:25): The home in which we moved was quite a contrast from what we had previously lived in. It had begun with a log house and been repaired and redone until you would hardly recognize what it was, but it turned out to be a rather comfortable place. The big draw back there was mosquitoes. We had to sleep under bars, that is nets that were to keep the mosquitoes out. I had malaria at the time.

Alonzo Plummer (02:12): My father was principally engaged, at that time, in raising cows. He had previously been a teacher in one room schools over the area. The ill health of my mother had caused him to take up an occupation where you could stay closer home, and he left that. At Nebo I went to school in a little one room school. It was a church house, really. Most of the rural schools in the area, I might say in the whole area of the South, rural schools were in church houses.

Alonzo Plummer (03:09): In the South there was very little tax money left to look out for either schools or roads in this state due to the fact that Louisiana was one of the few states that didn't repudiate the Civil War debt, a big part of which was brought on by the carpet bagger regime in Louisiana and for years after the war. It's been in recent years. I remember the campaign of one Jared Y. Sanders for governor of Louisiana in which he had... One of the big issues of his campaign was to pay the debt. Pay the debt and get it over.

David Dollar (04:10): Get it behind us.

Alonzo Plummer (04:12): Yeah, get it behind us.

David Dollar (04:12): Just a matter of curiosity, was he elected?

Alonzo Plummer (04:16): Yes, he was elected.

David Dollar (04:16): He was? That was before my time a little bit I'm afraid.

Alonzo Plummer (04:19): Yeah, he was elected.

David Dollar (04:21): Well, I'll be.

Alonzo Plummer (04:25): Something about the school. Our school was unique in one respect, and that was in what we might call now refrigeration. We didn't see it was refrigeration then, but to a degree it was refrigeration. A very beautiful cold water, clear spring creek passed right by the door. Most of the children, in fact, I think all of us took milk to school. We put it in bottles, put a string around the bottle and put it around our necks as a convenience to carry it. When we got to the school house we tied it to a root in a tree next to the creek and it stayed in there and it was nice and fresh.

David Dollar (05:33): It stayed real cold, huh?

Alonzo Plummer (05:36): It stayed nice and fresh. So, we had a pretty good lunch.

Alonzo Plummer (05:42): I'll give you a few things with reference to the activities within the school. One of the things, a little incident that illustrates something of what was going on happened to me. We were studying geography, and the geographies at that time were illustrated and then just questions asked. For instance, land forms. They asked what was an island? And what was an isthmus? And so on. We stood up, most of us barefooted, and you can imagine a line of people standing up toeing a crack across the building and standing up there just as erect as we could be. The teacher asked those questions as they were in that book and we were supposed to answer them verbatim according to what was in the book.

Alonzo Plummer (07:13): Well, a question came to me as to what was an island? Well, all those words just flat wouldn't come to me. And I said, "Well, an island is a small body of land with water all around it." Well that wasn't acceptable at all. I passed it on to the next person and she knew it verbatim and she turned me down. We had a turning down process of going to the head and so on and standing the foot. So I got turned down on that, and the next thing that came around to me was, what was a continent? My answer was that it was a large body of land that had water all around it. Or almost all around it, but that wasn't any good. It was large body of land surrounded by, or almost surrounded by water. That was the wording. Well, I was turned down again and that meant that I spent my recess time-

David Dollar (08:43): Studying geography [crosstalk 00:08:45].

Alonzo Plummer (08:44): Studying geography. But the humiliation of it was what really got me because it didn't take me any time. I remembered whoever turned me down, when they gave the right direction-

David Dollar (09:05): Then you knew the answer [crosstalk 00:09:06].

Alonzo Plummer (09:06): I knew the answer already.

David Dollar (09:10): Just a little bit late. I tell you what, Mr. Plummer, I don't want to turn you down or anything, but what I want do is interrupt right now for a commercial message from the folks that are bringing you Memories this morning, People's Bank & Trust Company. We'll be right back.

David Dollar (09:27): This is David Dollar, again, on Memories. In case you just joined us, we're visiting this morning with Mr. Alonzo Plummer. Mr. Plummer, you mentioned something. When we were talking earlier, you seemed to be very knowledgeable about the Civil War. Why don't you tell us a little bit about some of your vested interest in the Civil War, and some things that went on when you were living over in Mansfield?

Alonzo Plummer (09:49): Well, my people on both sides were very much involved in the Civil War. My father fought during the Civil War and the whole period through. He was discharged. I say discharged. They didn't give him a discharge. They gave him a parole at Vicksburg. No, at Mansfield, rather. Pardon me, at Mansfield in 1865. He had formerly been a member of Company A, 17th Louisiana Infantry. That organization was captured at Vicksburg when Vicksburg fell. But he didn't go in. He slipped out, got on a log on the Mississippi River and floated down to where he could get over in Louisiana, and he joined General Taylor's forces on the west side of the Mississippi River. That brought him to the Battle of Mansfield. Then in 1960, I became superintendent of the Mansfield Battle Park and Museum. The battle park was a part of the old battleground, and the museum contained relics of the battle and other Civil War relics. We didn't just stick to the things that were used at Mansfield.

David Dollar (12:06): But the whole war, yeah.

Alonzo Plummer (12:07): But the whole war.

David Dollar (12:08): So they had somebody that was almost as good as firsthand, at least secondhand, having you there at the museum about that, because your own father was right there in that very battle.

Alonzo Plummer (12:20): That's right. And I'll mention this. Before any marker or anything had ever been put up there, I passed along that road with him, and I didn't know anything about it then. I didn't know anything about even a battle having been fought right there. He looked around there and he said, "Well," he said, "Right here is where Dick Taylor whipped the hell out of Banks." And that was his-

David Dollar (12:58): That was it.

Alonzo Plummer (12:58): That was it.

David Dollar (12:58): And he knew the spot. Well, Mr. Plummer, let me interrupt you one more time. We need to take one more short commercial break. We'll be right back on Memories this morning with Mr. Alonzo Plummer.

David Dollar (13:10): Mr. Plummer, we like to close our program every week by having what we call a closing memory. If you've got something you'd like to share with us, why don't you go ahead now.

Alonzo Plummer (13:19): Well, the thing that I would like to share with you is the most important decision of my life. In 19 and 16, I met Miss Ala Lee Joyce. In May of 19 and 17, I had had, my mother had been ill and I'd been in close attendance with her, and I didn't have much chance to go see anybody. But anyway, we worked our courtship along, and in May of 1916, 1917 rather, in May of 1917, we decided to make a life partnership under a shade tree out in front of their home at Campti.

David Dollar (14:21): Well, I think that's a very fitting closing memory for our program. Thank you for sharing it with us. Mr. Alonzo Plummer was with us this morning on Memories.

Alonzo Plummer speaks about growing up in Natchitoches and his interest in the Civil War

Tags: natchitoches, memories, podcast, civil war, oral history interview, louisiana, nebo, school

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